Thursday, September 18, 2008
The last house standing

 

Yesterday, we received an amazing submission from iReport.com user austinheli. His photos showed a lone house standing in a wasteland left in Ike's aftermath.

 

We contacted austinheli , who is Ray Asgar, a private helicopter pilot based in Austin, Texas. He visited Gilchrist and Galveston Monday to photograph the damage left after Hurricane Ike slammed the coastal area last weekend. The lone yellow house caught Asgar's attention. He said it was the only structure standing for miles. Considering the extent of Ike’s devastation, he said, it was "odd to have nearly any damage to one home."

 

Several users left comments on Asgar's iReport , joining a debate about whether or not his photos were real. One user who jumped in was Kelley1. “This is my sister's house. It is real,” she wrote. Shortly afterward, Kelley1 uploaded a photo of the yellow house that was taken in May.

 

Kelley1 is Judy Hudspeth and the house belongs to her sister, Pam Adams. Pam and Warren Adams rebuilt their home in February 2006 after Hurricane Rita destroyed it the previous year. Hudspeth said that the couple hired a contractor to build a home that could withstand a Category 5 hurricane. Warren Adams watched over every step of the construction to make sure it was done correctly.

 

The couple evacuated to a friend's house in Lufkin, Texas, hours before Ike made landfall last week. Hudspeth said they've been without power since Saturday, and that her sister was "hysterical" when she initially heard everything was gone in Gilchrist. Pam and Warren have since learned that their house is one of the few in the area to survive the storm. They are returning to see the devastating damage today.

539 Comments
September 18, 2008

There was a house like this in New Orleans. The lady who lived in it said she prayed for the house before she left and when she came back her whole neighborhood was flooded except for her home. Beautiful.

September 18, 2008
Click to view newsjunky08's profile

I'll bet the contractor who rebuilt this house will be very busy for awhile.

September 18, 2008
Click to view angelaeastco's profile

I hope CNN will follow-up- very curious to see how much water came through the inside and what damage they have- also what did the builder do when this house was built to withstand such storms and how much extra did it cost?  stricter building requirements should be the standard

September 18, 2008
Click to view liveandlearn's profile

IREPORTTWO,

yes, i'm sure "praying" had something to do with it!

 

if so, why didn't she "pray" that the hurricane wouldn't come at all?

 

GET REAL!

September 18, 2008
Click to view mbtelluride's profile

OPPORTUNITY!!  We need to STUDY the construction of this home from top to bottom!!  We need the specs and then we need to write them into updated building codes all along the coastal USA from Texas to Maine!  If people insist on rebuilding along the ocean shore and on barrier islands, then, at the minimum, lets build something that has a chance to survive a hurricane.  WHO HAS THE CONTACTS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN????

September 18, 2008
Click to view Greekgeek's profile

angelaeastco -- Looks like the house is built up on stilts so all that it lost was balcony railings and steps. Chip in the roof -- could be some rain damage, but nothing structural.

 

The contractor did a great job. A mixed blessing, with all their neighbors gone, though.

September 18, 2008
Click to view robrocklin's profile

The question is why are people building homes in this area that are not hurricane proof and who is paying to rebuild; the ex-insurance giant AIG?

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

IREPORTTWO,

yes, i'm sure "praying" had something to do with it!

 

if so, why didn't she "pray" that the hurricane wouldn't come at all?

 

GET REAL!

 

Although the situation down there is very dire, this comment made me laugh because it was exactly what I was thinking, except I was thinking why didn't she pray for everyone's home?  Very self centered thinking for anyone to think that they were saved because they prayed.  And I don't really want to hear all the fantasy mumbo jumbo from the bible beaters either.

September 18, 2008
Click to view dkroupa's profile

There is no mystery here. It's a stilt house. Look at the first floor. It had blowout panels to allow the storm surge water to pass through. The rest of the house only needed to meet the standard Texas hurricane requirements. The bulk of the damage on the other homes was from wave damage on top of the storm surge, not wind. If the water rose to the second floor, the waves would have creamed the "mystery house" too.

September 18, 2008
Click to view ireport99's profile

liveandlearn and saresudog.  Just because you don't believe something yourselves, doesn't make it ok to belittle the beliefs of others.

 

my $.02

September 18, 2008
Click to view ThePrincess's profile

I find it very hard to believe that this house survived the Hurricane. I mean, the flag is still fluttering on the upper balcony. Incredible. I live in Ghana but was on the phone to someone in Turks and Caicos when Ike passed over. From all accounts, that flagpole should have been long gone. Light poles in Grand Turk were uprooted like toothpicks, so imagine what would have happened to a lone flagpole affixed to a wooden balcony.

September 18, 2008
Click to view CNNFERNANDO's profile

I remember some wild fires in California. Every house was burnt to the ground, except one big white house. The Korean owner invested a little more and got himself a house made with stucco: fire resistant.  Things can be done the right way since the beginning.

September 18, 2008
Click to view RandyT's profile

As a taxpayer I hope my taxes were not used to rebuild Galveston after the 1996 hurricane, and I have the same hope for this one.

If people choose to rebuild in a disaster-prone area, that's their choice, and building codes are fine, but taxpayers don't owe them anything to reimburse for losses due to their choice of a poor building location.

New Orleans, which continues to sink, should be relocated to the north, dynamite the levees holding back Lake Ponchertrain, and let nature take its course, which eventually it will do anyway.  Retrench and make SMART decisions, don't keep repeating the same lame-brained ones.  We Americans are often our own dumb worst enemies.

Perhaps the Texas barrier islands and the Carolinas barrier islands should be vacation/recreation only (easily evacuated) and not residential.

September 18, 2008
Click to view marshalld's profile

This home is the only type that should be allowed in storm prone areas. If you can't afford it then you have NO .ZERO,Nada, zilch business living there then . Period ! No exceptions and yes that builder is going to be in demand all through out the United States if you ask me !!!!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view Deadnskinny's profile

My house is rated for Cat 3 Hurricane winds ... and I live in Colorado.  If people choose to live in what ultimately are very dangerous places, even if the danger is only apparent once a year or so, then they need to take some extra precautions or just don't live there.  There will always can be a natural disaster that can go beyond all precautions of course, but you should do what you can.  The technology exists to make homes safer (see picture) and no one should wait for legistlation or laws to make sure they get it. 

 

Anyone who does will just end up raising insurance premiums for the rest of us!

 

My only other thought is that with the neighborhood wiped out, even if the house is standing it sure did nothing for property value, did it?  But glad to hear everyone is safe.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Dannalc's profile

Fascinating photo!  However, as others have intimated, depending on how high the storm surge got and its penetration of the interior, this house might still be a total loss.  Even if it maintains structural integrity and is livable, the problem is one of economic viability in a neighborhood that clearly won't recover for many years, if at all.  I certainly wouldn't choose to return to it anytime soon, if it were mine.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

liveandlearn and saresudog. Just because you don't believe something yourselves, doesn't make it ok to belittle the beliefs of others.

 

my $.02

 

And reality and the truth hurt sometimes ireport99.  The real world is not some fantasy land with fairies hanging all around you to tend to your every human emergency.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Ailina's profile

I agree with angelaeastco. I'd like to see CNN do a follow-up on this one. I'd like more confirmed details.

September 18, 2008
Click to view cash4willy's profile

liveandlearn and saresudog have you ever used the word tolerance without a negative. i guess you've never experienced the strength of prayer, i feel for you and the cynical world in which you live.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

And what about those other people who lost their homes?  So they didn't pray?  I guess only the Lord knows why this one, lone "miracle" house is left standing, right? It's not for us sheeple to question.

 

Couldn't have anything to do with a much more well-constructed home, now could it?  Wait. Perhaps Jesus blessed the builder to have the foresight to build this miracle residence.

 

Let me pray on it and I'll get back to you.

 

lol

September 18, 2008

This pictures is clear evidence of how bad things are in the Houston/Galveston/Beamount triangle.

 

I've heard people on the news disregard this area as no big deal.  Just because this wasn't like Katrina means it's no big deal. 

 

Clean water is finally back, but millions are without power.

 

Galveston alone thinks they have at least $10 billion in damage, and they are just a small island city.

September 18, 2008
Click to view cherrycoke's profile

ThePrincess,  ummm, the middle picture is the before picture...note the grass, that's why the flag and flagpole is still there.  This is real, no matter how hard you find it to believe.

September 18, 2008
Click to view ireport99's profile

saresudog,  It is one thing to believe that you are right.  It is another to state that all other beliefs are fiction.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

liveandlearn and saresudog have you ever used the word tolerance without a negative. i guess you've never experienced the strength of prayer, i feel for you and the cynical world in which you live.

 

cash4willy, have you ever typed a sentence asking such questions using a question mark?  I'm not going to get into a discussion about whether prayer works or not.  If you've read my posts and still don't get what I said, then it's not yours to have.  There's no doubt in my mind that if someone psychologically believes something enough (such as wanting to be healed) that it could happen.  The brain is a powerful thing.  As far as having prayer control over inanimate objects?  Haven't seen any scientific proof yet.  Cynical?  Absolutely not.  Realist?  Without a doubt.

 

In the long run, whatever gets you by.  I will leave you with this.  If there is someone who controls everything on this planet they already have a plan and their mind is made up.  What your little human mind thinks and wants doesn't really matter.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

+Just because you don't believe something yourselves, doesn't make it ok to belittle the beliefs of others.

 

my $.02+

 

Beliefs that have no basis in fact are superstition, nothing more, and superstition does NOT deserve respect.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Ireport...I'm really curious as to what you believe re: the other people's potential prayers...or anyone's prayers that their homes survive, for that matter.  Do you think they "prayed on" their homes, too?  Or perhaps the Galveston homeowner whose home survived is a rabid atheist.

 

How would you explain that?

September 18, 2008
Click to view ireport99's profile

That would suck to spend all that extra money on your house and still not be able to live in it even though it survived.  This type of construction should be mandated for everyone who builds in these areas so that responsible homebuilders don't get burnt like this, probably having to wait for year for utilities to be available again.

September 18, 2008
Click to view sonicmike's profile

Perhaps Jello of the Dead Kennedy's Punk Band said it all in a song "god told me to skin you alive".  It's always ok when a "miracle" happens, like one person surviving a plane crash; instead of the other 69 folks that died.  Wouldn't a "miracle" be all folks lived and won the lottery? Idiots...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"This type of construction should be mandated for everyone who builds in these areas so that responsible homebuilders don't get burnt like this, probably having to wait for year for utilities to be available again."

 

Or they could just pray again.  When you have the Lord's mighty power intervening, why concern yourself over little nuisances like building codes?

September 18, 2008
Click to view Zaljereck's profile

People are dying and dead and there's people on here arguing about god or lack there of? Go find a holy bible belt chat room if you want to argue semantics on whether god exists or not

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"It's always ok when a "miracle" happens, like one person surviving a plane crash; instead of the other 69 folks that died. Wouldn't a "miracle" be all folks lived and won the lottery? Idiots..."

 

LOL! Absolutely.  Funny how that works for "believers," isn't it? ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"People are dying and dead and there's people on here arguing about god or lack there of? Go find a holy bible belt chat room if you want to argue semantics on whether god exists or not"

 

Who died and made you the alleged creator?

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I'm not going to get into a discussion about whether prayer works or not.

 

Good, because sane people know it does not work because there is no god.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that if someone psychologically believes something enough (such as wanting to be healed) that it could happen. The brain is a powerful thing. As far as having prayer control over inanimate objects? Haven't seen any scientific proof yet.

 

Your logic is baffling. There is scientific proof that prayer has no effect, yet you dismiss the power of prayer over inanimate objects because there is no scientific proof. Absolutely baffling. And people should respect you for these baffling opinions? Fascinating.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Dalwhinnie's profile

Kudos to these people from learning from the first distruction of their home! Lets hope MANY more people follow in their foot steps!

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"saresudog, It is one thing to believe that you are right. It is another to state that all other beliefs are fiction."

 

Spin control warning!

 

ireport99, did Confucius say that?

 

Did I say "all other beliefs" in my posts?  Please stop trying to argue with your emotions and use your brain.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

My 2 cents is that there should definitely be an age limit on this site whereas we can go some where and discuss things without all the juvenile comments on religion and peoples lack of religion because of their own opinions based on their mistakes in life. Stick to what the blog is about not your lives!!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view sjanes's profile

For dkroupa

 

All of these houses were built on stilts genius. The just weren't built (the frames) to withstand a category 5.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Good, because sane people know it does not work because there is no god."

 

I'd add "intelligent" and "rational" to the term "sane," free.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Engteacher -- are you really an English teacher?  Because your comment was simply reeking with grammar and syntax errors.  Sorry.  :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

juvenile comments on religion

 

Ah, the self-proclaimed adjudicator of maturity has arrived! Huzzah!

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

To everyone who is arguing whether religion or prayer is right or wrong are missing the point of this whole thing. The report is about the fact that this house was able to make it through the Hurricane that it faced. If you want to argue religion start your own damn report!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Ah, the self-proclaimed adjudicator of maturity has arrived! Huzzah!"

 

And, apparently, would have us believe he or she is an English teacher.  Or perhaps he or she teaches Eng.

 

Personally, I'm betting on the latter.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

+"Good, because sane people know it does not work because there is no god."

 

I'd add "intelligent" and "rational" to the term "sane," free.+

 

Amen. Pun intended. :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Amen. Pun intended."

 

HAHAHAHAHA!  :-D

September 18, 2008
Click to view Bill777's profile

Bible reading and praying can help everyone.  On the Wednesday night befor the Hurricane Hit, I was in little church in Anniston Alabama  listing to Jesse Duplantis.

Jesse ask that we pray for five minutes, and so we prayed for the the winds to slow down and top of Ike be cut and for it lose power.  This one house showes that our prays were answer.  One day Saresudog you will Pray.

September 18, 2008
Click to view cyberhazard's profile

Saresudog,

 

If we believe on that which we can see and touch, then I DONT BELIEVE that there is a DEATH PENALTY for murders becuase i have never seen it....

 

For all i know that government declares them as dead, and makes them slave in some cave somewhere for free labor...

 

If you are going to post about blog about using your mind, make sure you fully analyze what u are tying to say before you say it...

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

To everyone who is arguing whether religion or prayer is right or wrong are missing the point

 

No, YOU are apparently missing the point: if people want to go on about how the house was saved because of a miracle or because of god, then it is every thinking person's responsibility to argue that point. Just as it is every thinking person's responsibility to call out politicians when they lie.

 

The lone house is interesting, but in the grand scheme of things, totally unimportant, excepting perhaps to the owner, insurer and/or mortgage holder.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Bible reading and praying can help everyone. On the Wednesday night befor the Hurricane Hit, I was in little church in Anniston Alabama listing to Jesse Duplantis.

Jesse ask that we pray for five minutes, and so we prayed for the the winds to slow down and top of Ike be cut and for it lose power. This one house showes that our prays were answer. One day Saresudog you will Pray."

 

God, I love good parody.  lol

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

The title of this report is not "God saves last standing house"!! One person mentions that fact that some lady said she prayed that her house would be saved..so what! She didn't say you have to pray or read the bible in order to save your house. Majority of these posts have nothing to do with the house...they are people arguning religion. Look at them!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view atmtex's profile

Just a note about disasters and comments regarding people not rebuilding at the coast.  I happen to agree that many of our beaches should not be inhabited due to storms like this but I think we can look at other disasters with equally devastating consequences and it brings to mind these questions - should no one live in Oklahoma since they are right in the middle of Tornado Alley; should no one live along the Mississippi and other rivers because they are prone to flooding; should no one live in California because of fires and earthquakes; should no one live in Colorado because of avalanches and spring flooding, this list could go on and on.  Every state has issues to deal with involving mother nature.  Be careful about what you point at - three of your fingers are pointing back at you!

September 18, 2008
Click to view ireport99's profile

saresudog,  I think it is clear who is using an emotional appeal in their arguments.  I find the lack of respect for a dissenting point of view, not surprising, but dissapointing.

September 18, 2008
Click to view brschro's profile

I'm sure that there was extra cost to building this home, but it was obviously worth it.  There are many options for homes that can withstand these storms.  Check out this site:  http://www.aidomes.com/.  Their homes are a durable AND affordable option.  This kind of building should be mandatory.  Insurance may be high on the coast, but with this much damage, the rest of us end up paying as well when the insurance claims come in.

September 18, 2008
Click to view megalosaurus's profile

There were some other pics during this storm that showed this was the only property in the area that was still above water. Apparently the property was at a higher altitude - probably not more than a few inches higher, but enough to make a difference.

 

It would be interesting to interview the owner a year from now to see if it was worth the cost. Were their insurance premiums any lower? Was there any interior damage? Was the house pillaged and trashed by looters? Even if the interior is completely undamaged and the house is completely habitable, it will likely be months before they can move back in, simply because the neighborhood no longer exists and there are no services. If there is significant damage that is not evident in this picture, then the place probably won't be quite the same after repairs. In that case, they may be better off having the whole house swept away, so they could start over with an all new house.

 

I recall seeing a video clip elsewhere where there were a group of houses left standing that were all built by the same builder. They interviewed him and he just shrugged and said he built them according to code.

 

As for the house in New Orleans that was saved by the owners prayers, do I understand correctly that that house was built at the same altitude as the neighbors' houses, and their houses were flooded and that one wasn't? Are there any pictures at the time of the flooding? I'd like to see them. I might take up praying myself.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"The title of this report is not "God saves last standing house"!! One person mentions that fact that some lady said she prayed that her house would be saved..so what! She didn't say you have to pray or read the bible in order to save your house. Majority of these posts have nothing to do with the house...they are people arguning religion. Look at them!!"

 

Why are you decrying in exclamatory statements?  This board is open for discussion.  Perhaps it's you who should find a different forum.  You know, one on which you can run your empire without fear of anyone questioning your ah-thor-rah-tie.

 

However, it appears you like to argue like everyone else here, doesn't it, cubbie?  Fancy that.  ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view OpEdImago's profile

Unusual and improbable but not impossible.

Chaos theory explains it , just as it explains how climatic phenomena can hinge on events that are a millisecond in duration and distances ane narrow as the breadth of a human hair.Also, fully opening all windows and doors before a tornado or hurricane hit are very wise precautions.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Be careful about what you point at - three of your fingers are pointing back at you!

 

Just as there is more than one way to skin a cat...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Also, fully opening all windows and doors before a tornado or hurricane hit are very wise precautions."

 

That's been disproven as a myth.  If you'd like me to cite my sources just say the word.

 

Otherwise, good points, Oped.  Additionally, I'd be careful -- this board might just smite you. ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view Propel's profile

Down in South Florida after Hurricane Andrew it did not look like this.  Homes were standing, because they are made out CBC block, and the roofs are attached via metal straps.   After Andrew the building code got a lot tougher.  Other locations in the paths of hurricanes need to see how they are building and whether they are really Hurricane resistant or not.  I frankly believe that this is a hoax, because there is no way to build a house that is Category 5 resistant.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Just as there is more than one way to skin a cat..."

 

LOL!  Also, a rolling bird in a bush gathers no moss, etc., etc.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Perhaps it's you who should find a different forum. You know, one on which you can run your empire without fear of anyone questioning your ah-thor-rah-tie.

 

+1

September 18, 2008
Click to view marcusharun's profile

that is crazy. i can't believe those photos. that is an amazing story though.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"I frankly believe that this is a hoax, because there is no way to build a house that is Category 5 resistant."

 

IMO, this is the first real logical observation about this allegedly "real" photograph to come down this board's pike.  Thanks, Propel.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

This is actually my first experience with blogging, but why do people like LillyBunny feel the need to belittle people and get way off track? Please feel free LillyOne to comment. And as far as the comments geared toward me I did not realize you were a teacher as well LillyBunny.

 

Bill777, thank you for your comment it was great and nicely stated.

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

No arguing and I couldn't give a rat's ass whether I have "ah-thor-rah-tie" or not. I just think the whole thing got way off track. I am not arguing whether any does or does not believe in GOD or the bible or any other religious/non-religious views. I just hate coming into to read about articles and then the opinions get so side tracked its incredible. It's not just here, its all of the web. I also believe that everyone is entitled to there own opinion, I just want to hear about there opinion about the house in this case and not hear them argue with one another about a completely different issue.

September 18, 2008
Click to view opus's profile

That's really swell but would you really want to go back?  Check out more aerial views from the area around the house:

 

http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/hurricanes/ike/post-storm-photos/20080915/20080915_145052d.jpg

http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/hurricanes/ike/post-storm-photos/20080915/20080915_145055d.jpg

September 18, 2008
Click to view Bubdud's profile

This shows that if a person has the money to rebuild it would be worth it, to pay a little extra, and get this type of construction that helps in a hurricane.

 

I think when new homes are built in these areas it should be mandatory they are built like this.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

And now we know the reason why some people should not have the privilege to vote.

 

Oh my god!  Did I just switch the subject again?  Look out!  Here come the pseudo moderators.

 

LillyBunny and FreeMan, you guys are hilarious!

September 18, 2008
Click to view mitchgam's profile

In Homestead Florida after Hurricane Andrew there was only one building with an intact roof for miles. It belonged to an out of state insurance company. They had brought in their own crew to build it EXACTLY to the building code at the time. It is NOT an issue of rewriting building codes. The problem is enforcing that the code is followed to the letter

September 18, 2008
Click to view ReCLaIM's profile

Not that I'm advocating religion.. but there is just as much proof that God does exist, than their is proof that God does not.

 

You can argue that God does exist or does not all day, but the truth is that Agnosticism is the correct answer... The answer being that we cannot know, for sure.

 

I respect people's right to believe in God just as much as I respect people's rights not to believe in him.. even though neither of those 'opinions' have any factual basis.

 

I also respect people's rights to be morons if they want to be and not respect other peoples right to do what they want.

September 18, 2008
Click to view MatthewLB's profile

Moral of the story could be:

 

If your going to rebuild a house in a danger area, build it as best you can.  Could save a lot of money in the long run.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Anthise's profile

One thing to keep in mind when debating the "Why live in disaster-prone areas" issue is that some of these places, such as New Orleans and the Galveston area, are economically important to the entire country.  Rather than suggest that people move from these places, why not work to make these areas safer to live in.  Improved levee systems and stricter building codes would save the country billions.

 

By the way, before we get too far into the "I don't want MY tax dollars paying for that" debate, consider how much more your cheap Chinese textiles would cost were they not shipped by barge up the Mississippi River through the New Orleans port.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

On a positive note, this homeowner now has a great view of the water.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Taffera's profile

If someone could tell me whose windows are installed in the house that would be great!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"And as far as the comments geared toward me I did not realize you were a teacher as well LillyBunny."

 

Which track would that be, eng?  There are several currently on the table here.

 

"...I did not realize you were a teacher as well LillyBunny."

 

I'm not. I'm a writer and a law student.  I still maintain neither are you (an English teacher). 

 

"First experience blogging"?  lol Sure. And I have a miracle house in Galveston to sell you. ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Bill777, thank you for your comment it was great and nicely stated.

 

If you're a teacher, that explains why kids are doing so poorly. It's a shame you aren't mentally equipped to recognize satire. Then you could pass on that gift of critical thinking to your students.

September 18, 2008
Click to view fwthompson77's profile

Freeman56, you are probably the funniest little man with opinions and attention seeking behavior.  So just to make you feel more attention i would like to argue with you.  Are you a racist or an absolute window licking moron?  That is the question and arguement i want to have with you.  So, which are you?  I think we should all jump in and discuss this indepth about Freeman56. 

Then again, these are just my opinions, but as you say, we should really start talking about all of our personal ideas and then spit them on everybody.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Look out! Here come the pseudo moderators."

 

LOL!

 

"LillyBunny and FreeMan, you guys are hilarious!"

 

As are you!  :-D

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"No arguing and I couldn't give a rat's ass whether I have "ah-thor-rah-tie" or not. I just think the whole thing got way off track. I am not arguing whether any does or does not believe in GOD or the bible or any other religious/non-religious views. I just hate coming into to read about articles and then the opinions get so side tracked its incredible. It's not just here, its all of the web. I also believe that everyone is entitled to there own opinion, I just want to hear about there opinion about the house in this case and not hear them argue with one another about a completely different issue."

 

Seems like another person who hates the reality of things.  So don't read the comments then, or how about this, read the ones that pertain to the subject matter that you most agree with.

 

But don't tell the rest of us what we can and can't say.  There are no rules here that say that we have to strictly adhere to the subject matter...or are there???

September 18, 2008
Click to view MarsMinute's profile

Built on stilts?  Yes!  But so were 99% of all the others that surrounded it.

 

I'm from that general area, and can tell you that it was the newer construction that fared much better.  I do not have any idea when or how this house was built, but I would be willing to bet its relatively new.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Not that I'm advocating religion.. but there is just as much proof that God does exist, than their is proof that God does not.

 

No, there is not. That is either a lie or you are simply deluded.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Not that I'm advocating religion.. but there is just as much proof that God does exist, than their is proof that God does not."

 

Oh that's just brilliant!

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Bill777, thank you for your comment it was great and nicely stated.

 

If you're a teacher, that explains why kids are doing so poorly. It's a shame you aren't mentally equipped to recognize satire. Then you could pass on that gift of critical thinking to your students."

 

Silly Free.  Satire isn't a part of grades K-8 curriculum any longer.  The baby Jesus weeps at satire.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Wasn't it Jesus who said to build your house on the rock and not on the sand?

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

fwthompson77 your comment is absolutely brilliant!! I would love to make Freeman56 and LillyBunny feel better about themselves and give them more attention, but I think that will just make things worse for ALL OF US :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view p215mmc's profile

While in accord with others in this blog that contributors should stick to the topic at hand, I had to laugh at saresudog and freeman56, who seem to have missed the many dozens of scientific studies that have, in fact, suggested that the power of prayer, whether through suggestion or through the actual existence of a divine being, actually can be proved. Visit http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm for more details.  And I must comment on engteacher...I am an English teacher and, as I read your post, found the lack of care taken with the English language deplorable.

 

In other news, what a fascinating story of an intelligent family who learned its lesson the last time and took the appropriate steps to ensure that such a tragedy would not occur again...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Wasn't it Jesus who said to build your house on the rock and not on the sand?"

 

LOL!  Or perhaps State Farm/Allstate...  ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Are you a racist or an absolute window licking moron?

 

I like pizza on Friday night.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

fwthompson77, don't call people morons when you can't even spell "argument" correctly.  You know, like those in glass houses...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

" FreeMan56 » Are you a racist or an absolute window licking moron?

 

I like pizza on Friday night."

 

HAHAHAHAHA  I like Crest. It makes my teeth whiter and I gots no cavities when I goes to the dentist-person. I also use it on windows. It cleans them better than saliva.

September 18, 2008
Click to view fwthompson77's profile

Agreed.  Honestly though, reading their words truly make me feel so much better about myself.

September 18, 2008
Click to view ousieks1's profile

It is clearly photoshopped into the picture as a graphic animator. NIce try

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

By reality of things do mean that fact that there is no GOD? I never once said that there was or wasn't. I never even tried to tell you that you were wrong nor did I direct this at you. I'm just amazed at how quickly things can go crazy. I think it took about 5 posts for the subject matter to turn to something else.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"You know, like those in glass houses..."

 

Hey! I know a good window licker who can tidy up those glass houses in no time, sare!  ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Ok, guess this will be my last blog for this discussion as I did not come here to get critized by people THINKING they are better than others. Wow how sad for me and others that are new to blogging!

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Silly Free. Satire isn't a part of grades K-8 curriculum any longer. The baby Jesus weeps at satire."

 

I prefer praying to the baby jesus.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"I'm just amazed at how quickly things can go crazy."

 

So now you're the proclaimer of Internet forum mental health?  Excuse me if I take a pass.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"I prefer praying to the baby jesus."

 

LOL!  I know, right?  It's simply more fun to pray to a yet-cognitively-undeveloped myth, isn't it?

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"While in accord with others in this blog that contributors should stick to the topic at hand, I had to laugh at saresudog and freeman56, who seem to have missed the many dozens of scientific studies that have, in fact, suggested that the power of prayer, whether through suggestion or through the actual existence of a divine being, actually can be proved. Visit http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm for more details."

 

Wow, imagine that.  A religious persons point of view on whether prayer really works or not.

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

By crazy I was not referring to people, just how off topic we, including myself, can get. Look at how amny directions this topic went from all of us.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Propel's profile

Let me clarify, and take it back. 

 

It could be true, only because Ike was a category 2 Hurricane when it hit.  Andrew hit as a category 5, originaly thought of a s a 4 then recategorized as a 5. If it was built correctly, it will have withstood a category 2.

 

Hurricane Categories can be found.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboutsshs.shtml

 

 

The think to take away from all this is, if you are going to live in an are prone to a specific disaster, ie (tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes and on and on) we need to build for that contingency. 

 

Sooner or later mother nature hits, it's just a fact of life.  It is how we handle it that makes the difference.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Ok, guess this will be my last blog for this discussion as I did not come here to get critized by people THINKING they are better than others."

 

Wow.  That's some skewed logic there, boy howdy.

 

"Wow how sad for me and others that are new to blogging!"

 

No, just be sad that you're pretending to be an English teacher who doesn't know that the word "that" is not proper in your sentence.  Try for "who" next time. :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view Superhoot's profile

Maybe it was a combination of praying and insulating the walls and roof deck of the house with closed-cell spray foam insulation.

 

Closed-cell spray foam insulation will triple the shear strength and racking strength of any house. 

 

Go ahead, look it up.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

the many dozens of scientific studies that have, in fact, suggested that the power of prayer, whether through suggestion or through the actual existence of a divine being, actually can be proved. Visit http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm for more details.

 

If this is all the proof you require, then you are a tool.

September 18, 2008
Click to view samnelson's profile

I don't understand why houses are built with these materials in the US. The basic wooden framework for houses is very old technology. Houses in places like these should be framed with reinforced concrete and walls should be brick and two wide.

September 18, 2008
Click to view p215mmc's profile

Saresudog...Having fun jumping to conclusions?  I'm actually agnostic. Not religious at all, just well-informed. Have fun jumping!

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

One last comment to LillyBunny and FreeMan56; ignorance is not bliss as you may have been taught previously throughout your life.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Ok, guess this will be my last blog for this discussion as I did not come here to get critized by people THINKING they are better than others."

 

No it won't.  You'll be back for more.

September 18, 2008
Click to view adamthegreat's profile

it could be the grey man... a ghost thats warns people to leave their house before hurricanes hit and they're houses are always untouched just like this...

http://www.coastalguide.com/tales/pelicangreyman.shtml

September 18, 2008
Click to view salvatore19's profile

My heart goes out to all those who have suffered as a result of this storm.  From the first time I saw this picture I felt that it is a testimony to what can be built in areas where storms are prevalent.  I think that this contractor needs to receive his public recognition for a job well done and he should be very proud indeed!

September 18, 2008
Click to view adamthegreat's profile

it could be the grey man...  a ghost thats known to tell people to leave their houses before hurricanes hit and their house is always untouched just like this

http://www.coastalguide.com/tales/pelicangreyman.shtml

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"One last comment to LillyBunny and FreeMan56; ignorance is not bliss as you may have been taught previously throughout your life."

 

Told ya!

 

And to the person who said that there should be a minimum age for posters here.  Exactly what age would that be?

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

+fwthompson77 »

Agreed. Honestly though, reading their words truly make me feel so much better about myself.+

 

Just like asking people if they are window licking morons makes you feel better? I guess having religion makes you morally superior, so you can ask these questions without thinking....about actually being morally superior, or even morally equal.

 

+engteacher »

fwthompson77 your comment is absolutely brilliant!! I would love to make Freeman56 and LillyBunny feel better about themselves+

 

I don't need to feel better about myself, I am GREAT!

 

Thanks for applauding the belittler. Another morally superior twit, you are.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Saresudog...Having fun jumping to conclusions? I'm actually agnostic. Not religious at all, just well-informed. Have fun jumping!"

 

Stop thinking it's all about you.  I wasn't referring to you.  I was referring to the author.

 

That being said it would seem, by the proof that you gave me, that you are looking to lean in the religious direction.

September 18, 2008
Click to view newsnut's profile

A well known Drug boss owns this house. Says God watched over him. He messed up though when he went to apply from Fema for Food stamps. He was receving food stamps before but Fema double checked this time.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

By crazy I was not referring to people, just how off topic we, including myself, can get. Look at how amny directions this topic went from all of us.

 

Isn't it great? You can start talking about one thing, and before you know it, you have a real discussion on your hands!

 

Oh me oh my, what am I to do?

September 18, 2008
Click to view harar's profile

Did u see the other aerial photos?  And at risk for hurricanes....Why in the world would anyone live there?

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

Ok..to be truthful I am writing a paper for my philosophy class and slighted baited my opinion to get others opinions. So in light of that, I think that you can talk about whatever, whenever, wherever!! (Suaresdog, yes that's an exclamation..jk!) So thanks, for your points of view "Pray" (haha) that I do well on my paper!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view brschro's profile

Seems that some people need a job or a life.  Anyway, my last (second) comment in conclusion is that proper building is possible, especially if you open your eyes to alternatives: http://www.aidomes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=282&Itemid=164&limit=1&limitstart=1

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

One last comment to LillyBunny and FreeMan56; ignorance is not bliss as you may have been taught previously throughout your life

 

LOL - the irony meter just moved into the red zone!

September 18, 2008
Click to view LucyFerr's profile

I agree competely with 'if you can't handle the heat, get out the kitchen' kind of responses. Americans attitudes of keepin up with the Joneses have made the faulting of our econonmy. If you have that much pride where you live and all that encompasses that, why not take the extra time and money needed to protect yourself and those around you? Now thanks to the people who saved themselves money by cutting corners we're all facing the possibilty of paying for that carelessness.

  "And I always thought this would be

The land of milk and honey

Oh but I come to find out

That its all hate and money

And theres a canopy of greed holding me down"

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"One last comment to LillyBunny and FreeMan56; ignorance is not bliss as you may have been taught previously throughout your life."

 

And writing in non-cliches can be your friend, as well as coming clean about your real profession. Because between "FreeMan56" and "ignorance" a colon was required, not a semicolon.

 

Now, pretend engteacher -- just what was it you were saying re: ignorance?  ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Isn't it great? You can start talking about one thing, and before you know it, you have a real discussion on your hands!"

 

"Oh me oh my, what am I to do?"

 

Seriously though.  This blog has about 10-12 entries if we didn't open up the floor to a broader discussion.  Shame on some of you people for trying to smother that.

 

Remember, you should never eat from the tree of knowledge.

September 18, 2008
Click to view wm1997's profile

My house was the sole surviving house on my street in a huge fire in Santa Barbara in 1992.  It is blessing to keep those important keepsakes like early childhood photos.  It is a nightmare working with insurance companies to deal with the inevitable damage (e.g., landscaping, smoke and heat damage in my case).

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"LOL - the irony meter just moved into the red zone!"

 

HAHAHAHA!  Free, it's an absolute meltdown of irony.

 

I'd be willing to bet good money that eng doesn't teach irony in his or her pretend classroom, either.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Having fun jumping to conclusions?

 

I made this game called "Jump To Conclusions". It has a floor mat with different conclusions on colored dots, kind of like the game "Twister". So, you roll the dice, and you "Jump To Conclusions". Get it?

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

wm1997, I'm so happy for you that your home survived, yet sad for the other people on your street. I'm really sorry this happened.

 

I recently evacuated for Gustav, and I took everything that held irreplaceable sentimental value, as well as all important homeowner documents, insurance policies, etc.  You're right. It's crucial.

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

FreeMan 56 that was some bad humor!! LOL!! I can here the sound of crickets chirping in the background!! JK

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Seems that some people need a job or a life. Anyway, my last (second) comment in conclusion is that proper building is possible, especially if you open your eyes to alternatives: http://www.aidomes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=282&Itemid=164&limit=1&limitstart=1"

 

Thanks very much for stopping by to judge people of whom you really have no idea (you really don't) what they do in their day to day lives.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"Having fun jumping to conclusions?

 

I made this game called "Jump To Conclusions". It has a floor mat with different conclusions on colored dots, kind of like the game "Twister". So, you roll the dice, and you "Jump To Conclusions". Get it?"

 

HHHHHHHAHAHAHAHA!  I'm literally laughing out loud here.  I mean, I know people pen that; I'm really doing it. Now.  Here.

September 18, 2008
Click to view robbireus's profile

ok I'll add my 2 cents....as a believer in faith and pray, I'm also a realist.  Us (quoting) 'puny' humans have the great capacity to not fathom God's abilty to answer our prayers and, as a result, we usually ask for minimal prayer coverage.  Our lack of understanding and failure to see the extent that answered prayers could cover is the reason that we fail to "see" the bigger possibilities.  You (several) are correct in asking why not ask for the entire community to be protected, or ask that the hurricane will not hit that area or fade away.  Our faith and vision is strong enough to believe that it will happen.  Father, let our eyes and our hearts be opened to the broader possibilities. Amen

September 18, 2008
Click to view jorg's profile

to sjanes:

 

Ike hit as a category *2* hurricane.  Not cat 5.  These houses were built so poorly they couldn't even withstand a wimpy cat 2 hurricane.  That's how bad/stupid the structure codes were in galveston. People living there should really have known better.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

In my humble opinion, the topic here should be whether or not that picture was photoshopped.

 

What a great iconic moment either way, huh?  lol

September 18, 2008
Click to view john827's profile

It is amazing that this house is still standing.  I hope for a follow up story to see if it is still livable.

 

It is also amazing to see the "agnostic/atheist" bashing the religious.  Do you really think they are "sheeple", incapable or unwilling to think for themselves?  Do you really think you smarter than they are?  Plenty of religious doctors, chemists, engineers....  Do you really think they need YOU to save them from themselves?  People have reasons for believing and reasons for not.  Your lack of tolerance is almost frightening.  Your arrogance and delusions of grandeur suggest you may be the one who needs a reality check.  Given your statements, most of your theology is not just weak, it is flat out wrong.  It may help if you understood peoples’ beliefs before you criticize them.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Remember, you should never eat from the tree of knowledge.

 

Uh, uh, uh, why not?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVNlvzzSFA

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Saresu and Freeman, I'm outtie.  Thanks for providing intelligent, witty discussion and making me laugh on more than one occasion today. 

 

Hope to see you soon!  :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"FreeMan 56 that was some bad humor!! LOL!! I can here the sound of crickets chirping in the background!! JK"

 

Really?  You must live in the country somewhere then.  You know, those people don't take to kindly to people taking kindly...oh, where am I going with this?

 

Anyway, I'm just speculating about the country thing.  This statement in no way is meant to discriminate on the basis of race, color, creed, etc., etc...or country people.  I like them all the same.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Anyway, I'm just speculating about the country thing. This statement in no way is meant to discriminate on the basis of race, color, creed, etc., etc...or country people. I like them all the same.

 

Oh, I forgot religion too.

September 18, 2008
Click to view john827's profile

LOL freeman56, I thought youtube may be the source of your theology.

September 18, 2008
Click to view jorg's profile

Hey John827, what's there to understand?  I believe in pink elephants and fairies and dragons.  I'm gonna go run naked in the rain praying to the pink elephant god.  Now i'm going to ask you to respect my beliefs and take them seriously.

 

That's how others see you.

September 18, 2008
Click to view superdog1's profile

LillyBunny: Before you start to lecture someone about the use of the word "that", you should check yourself. 

 

"No, just be sad that you're pretending to be an English teacher who doesn't know that the word "that" is not proper in your sentence. Try for "who" next time."

 

While I'm NOT an english teacher or a writer, I can say you have used the word "that" where it wasn't really necessary.  If you remove the word "that" from your sentence, it still makes sense.

 

My issue with the very first post is this: Christians feel the need to bring God into every issue in life when it's not necessary.  Why do Christians feel the need to push their belief of God.  If your God is so great, why does he allow innocent children to die, get raped, tortured, kidnapped, etc...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile
Remember, you should never eat from the tree of knowledge.

 

But of course! Because that's just what the doctor ordered for this mixed up, zany world: more starving imbeciles. And with that, I'm really out.
September 18, 2008
Click to view tunes's profile

We're in NW Florida where Ivan, just a little stronger than Ike, came aboard and probably did less damage.  The reason is building codes.  When Andrew slammed south Florida in '92, building codes changed.  I am not familiar with Texas building codes, but it takes an event like this or Andrew to change a whole state.  The wasteland behind this house are all the structures that were built to substandard code.  This house survived because the owner was smart enough and had enough money to build one that survived a "mere" Cat 2.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"ok I'll add my 2 cents....as a believer in faith and pray, I'm also a realist. Us (quoting) 'puny' humans have the great capacity to not fathom God's abilty to answer our prayers and, as a result, we usually ask for minimal prayer coverage. Our lack of understanding and failure to see the extent that answered prayers could cover is the reason that we fail to "see" the bigger possibilities. You (several) are correct in asking why not ask for the entire community to be protected, or ask that the hurricane will not hit that area or fade away. Our faith and vision is strong enough to believe that it will happen. Father, let our eyes and our hearts be opened to the broader possibilities. Amen"

 

Amen

 

Though I think that was really more than two cents worth

September 18, 2008
Click to view cherrycoke's profile

Wow Lillybunny- do you do anything else but comment on here?  I have never seen anyone get so worked up and over-comment on a story about a house that made it through a hurricane...  You are very funny to me,  thanks for the entertainment.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Zamees's profile

Google maps has street view of this area. Someone find the address of this house, so we can see the before picture of the area.

September 18, 2008
Click to view KMFelps's profile

Why is it that this blog has turned into a bash everyone fest?  Somehow it has gone from discussing the miracle that this house somehow made it through the devastating storm - to - biting each others heads off.  Is there a God?  Absolutely if you believe so.  Does prayer work?  Absolutely, if you have the faith and believe in it.  If not, then no, prayer does not work and there is no God.  You are all fighting about God and prayer.  Is any of that really relevant?  Let's get back to the topic at hand, please.  One house of many stood, while the rest were flattened.  This type of construction is indeed marvelous.  Should these people live in a hurricane prone area?  That's there decision.  This IS America.  People have their freedom of choice.  So as long as a town is indeed a town, and people are allowed to build there, then it is their choice to do so.  Should we criticize them?  No.  I too took rather severe hurricane damage and I live over 90 miles inland from New Orleans.  Gustav dropped two trees on my home, punctured the roof, did heavy water damage to everything.  Should I move?  Maybe.  But I am certainly not going to judge those who choose to stay in their various areas.  I am not going to judge those who believe in God, or those who don't.  Stop the Junior High School bickering please and get back to realizing how devastating this storm was for people.

September 18, 2008
Click to view CubsFanInNJ's profile

KMFelps..I tried that line, but it ignited more!! Good Luck! Although, mine was to purposely fire up opinions for a paper I have to write.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

They keep dragging me back in. lol

 

While I'm NOT an english teacher or a writer, I can say you have used the word "that" where it wasn't really necessary. If you remove the word "that" from your sentence, it still makes sense.

Actually, my original sentence is perfectly acceptable grammatically.

Speaking of those pesky glass houses -- I'm assuming you're in the United States, superfluous canine. You do know that commas go inside end quotation marks, don't you?

If you followed the thread, you'd realize that "engteacher" was stating that he or she was an English teacher. I merely pointed out that he or she could not possibly hold that profession, because he or she most assuredly does not have even the most rudimentary command of the English language.

 

Did you read the entire thread?  No?

 

Gasp.  I'm shocked.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Superdog1 what were you referring to?

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"It is also amazing to see the "agnostic/atheist" bashing the religious. Do you really think they are "sheeple", incapable or unwilling to think for themselves? Do you really think you smarter than they are? Plenty of religious doctors, chemists, engineers.... Do you really think they need YOU to save them from themselves? People have reasons for believing and reasons for not. Your lack of tolerance is almost frightening. Your arrogance and delusions of grandeur suggest you may be the one who needs a reality check. Given your statements, most of your theology is not just weak, it is flat out wrong. It may help if you understood peoples' beliefs before you criticize them."

 

I do understand because I used to be one of them.  The problem that I have with you people is that you expect the rest of us to fall in line with you.  You want to influence the government to make the law according to the fairy tale that you believe to be true.  If you want to believe that nonsense that's your business and I don't have one problem with it.  Just don't try to tell me that I have to live by it too.  Good enough?

 

I find it ironic that you sit here and chastise us for not knowing your beliefs when you really can't ascertain just by reading this blog whether or not we really know anything about said beliefs.

September 18, 2008
Click to view EllaMcFarFar's profile

"I don't really want to hear all the fantasy mumbo jumbo from the bible beaters either."

 

And they want to hear your sarcasm and rude comments?  Self-centered indeed.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Superdog1 what were you referring to?

Too rich! I thought you made your last post, fake educator.

Oh, God. Did you really end a sentence with "to"?

 

lololololol

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Superdog1 what were you referring to?"

 

You said that you were leaving.  Rubbernecker!

September 18, 2008
Click to view JJBPK's profile

What surprise me is that there are so few homes standing???

 

I live on a rock, in the Conch Republic. It's called Big Pine Key, 90 miles North of Havana and 150 miles South West of Miami.

 

After Andrew in 1992,  Florida and FEMA changed our building code to support 150 mph wind loads, almost 16 years ago. In fact I think it is even higher now.

 

Our house was built in 97 to the new wind load designs. In the last 11 years we (BPK) have had over a doz cat 1,2,3 storms with-in 100 miles. Three(3) had the eye over the house,, or dam near.

 

We didn't lose one(1) roof shingle, we had 24 inches of water under the house, lost power for a couple days,, but no damage. AND even though some of our neighbors live in older homes, the most they lost were shingles, no windows, no pourches, no garages,, plenty of water. In 1998, Georges, cat 3, with gusts to 140 mph, 20 inch of water. In 2005, Wilma, Cat 1-2, winds over 100 mph, 24 inches of water.

 

What kind of building codes do they have in Texas?? It looks worse than Andrew when it pass through Florida CIty and he was a cat 5 with winds over 200 mph..

 

Now granted,, the water surge can do lots of damage, at 8 lbs per gallon,, a bazillion gallons will level stuff. But the talking heads are showing neighborhoods that are inland..

 

Oh, We got old,, some of the homes in Key West are over 200 years old,, still standing...

 

A curious FOG..

Jim

An Old Parrot Head,

In The Conch Republic,

Just South of Reality

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Do you really think they are "sheeple", incapable or unwilling to think for themselves?

 

Their comments provide the evidence of that.

 

Do you really think you smarter than they are?

 

Yes, absolutely, unequivocally, without any doubt.

 

Plenty of religious doctors, chemists, engineers.... Do you really think they need YOU to save them from themselves?

 

No, we need to be saved from THEM and their phony moral superiority.

 

People have reasons for believing and reasons for not. Your lack of tolerance is almost frightening. Your arrogance and delusions of grandeur suggest you may be the one who needs a reality check. Given your statements, most of your theology is not just weak

 

Wow, you could tell all about my theology from the little I posted here? You are truly a person to be shunned and mocked! How dare you suggest that you even have one iota of understanding about me, my views, or my intelligence. You are simply another morally superior person who is morally bankrupt.

 

You only talk about tolerance because your views are insane and require no logic or proof. Why should we tolerate senseless thinking? Should we also tolerate liars because they have a different perspective? Should we tolerate bigamists because they have a different perspective? Should we tolerate pedophilia, because pedophiles have different views?

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Although, mine was to purposely fire up opinions for a paper I have to write.

LOLOLOL! Cubbie, you did not just use the oldest posting excuse in the book.  :-D

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Would you please leave already LillyBunny? I do believe you have gotten enough attention and laughs at you for one day!

September 18, 2008
Click to view peakester's profile

There's a story that a woman's house was in the path of a flood and friends came and asked her to leave. Her response was that God would protect her and she stayed in the house. As the flood came and the waters rose friends and officials visited her 2 more times, once in a boat and once in a helicopter as she sat on her roof. The flood eventually whisked her away and she drowned. When she soon faced God at the pearly gated she addressed God and said "I thought you would protect me". God's response was "I tried 3 times". I personally don't believe that God saves houses or designates certain people to score touchdowns. That's the result of us no longer living in Eden. How God responds to our prayers is reserved for God. Kudos to the owner of the house and the renovator and to God for our ability to discuss it.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Remember, you should never eat from the tree of knowledge.

But of course! Because that's just what the doctor ordered for this mixed up, zany world: more starving imbeciles."

 

"And with that, I'm really out"

 

Me too.  And I don't mean like some people around here.  I won't mention any names, but their initials are engteacher.

 

Thanks for the laughs everyone.  Now I'm going to go pray about this.

September 18, 2008
Click to view TCBPgh's profile

So, really??  The big debate over this picture is God vs. no God?  Who cares what other people think?  Are we using this blog to sway religious opinions?  How about, "Wow, cool picture--nice break from all of the other, horrible pictures from the TX coast!"

I guess with that storm surge, the world really IS NOT flat!!  Good thing I live in an age where that statement won't cause me an early death :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view john827's profile

@ saresudog, If you read from the beginning post, you will see the mention of God brought an automatic and immediate attack on the person for believing. My statement was that the people in this post seem to be intolerant.  Your "said beliefs" may only be hinted at, but the lack of tolerance is obvious.

September 18, 2008
Click to view tunes's profile

He doesn't care about touchdowns?  Damn, my fantasy football season will be a disaster.

 

Couldn't agree more, peakester.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

LOL freeman56, I thought youtube may be the source of your theology.

 

Well, despite your erroneous conclusion, at least you're thinking.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

engteacher » Would you please leave already LillyBunny? I do believe you have gotten enough attention and laughs at you for one day!

HAHAHA! Let me understand you correctly. You're leaving, them I'm leaving, then I call you out on it, and you subsequently

order

me to leave.

 

How f-ing high are you right now, fake educator?

 

To answer your query:  No. I've not received enough laughs, nor have I received enough attention. Can anyone, really?  Further, now that I know you're fairly upset, I'm going to continue posting here just to make your board existence a living hell.  Notwithstanding the foregoing, if you own up to not being an English teacher and not posting for the very. first. time., I'll leave.  Fair enough?

 

Praise the lord.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

I guess cig breaks are over for the comedians it's back to the stage.

September 18, 2008
Click to view hoosier95's profile

I feel sorry for Saresudog and Superdog1, who believe that everything has a scientific explanation.  What a boring way to live.  Maybe they should just help build another large hadron collider to find out how the universe was created.  If you believed in something, you wouldn't have to waste 10 billion dollars on a machine.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Is there a God? Absolutely if you believe so. Does prayer work? Absolutely, if you have the faith and believe in it.

 

Is there a flying spaghetti monster?

 

Does Santa Claus exist?

September 18, 2008
Click to view Kelley1's profile

The house is on Church street in Gilchrist, on the Gulf side. It about 2 blocks east of Roll Over Pass. Which a little cut from the Gulf to the Bay. You can see a Church to the left of the house. This house is only 2 years old. If you look at Google Map, it's Pam's old house that was destroyed by Hurricane Rita.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

engteacher » I guess cig breaks are over for the comedians it's back to the stage.

 

"Cig breaks"?  Oh, yes. You're a teacher. Mmm-hmm.

 

Eeeewwww.  lol

 

It only hurts you when we laugh, huh?  ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Wish we could judge people on earth, because honestly LillyBunny that was not funny and uncalled for (the ending of your last post). And FYI it's bored not board, building something?

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

The question is not why this house survived while the others did not, but why all the others failed structurally from the storm surge of a category 2 hurricane.  Strong building codes (like the Miami/Dade codes now in force throughout Florida) and the enforcement of those codes are key to saving property.  There's no mystery here.  Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame.

September 18, 2008
Click to view NawlensGator's profile

You can build homes to withstand 140 mph winds and storm surge.  Capt Charlie in Hopedale recently rebuilt his lodge house to do so.  First floor is 22 ft high on 60ft poles hammered 38 ft into the ground.  Everything is strapped together tight.  Looks normal otherwise.  This couple made a smart move.  Hats off to them!!  I learned something.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Is there a flying spaghetti monster?

Does Santa Claus exist?

 

Free, if you're going to tell me now that Flying Spaghetti Raptor Jesus Tooth Bunny doesn't exist, well, that's a little too much for me to parse.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"@ saresudog, If you read from the beginning post, you will see the mention of God brought an automatic and immediate attack on the person for believing. My statement was that the people in this post seem to be intolerant. Your "said beliefs" may only be hinted at, but the lack of tolerance is obvious."

 

Ok I lied.  One more comment for john827.  I believe that the intolerance started when Christians jailed Galileo for having the nerve to state that the earth was not the center of the universe or the solar system for that matter.  It continued on with the belief that gays should be burned at the stake (where the word faggot comes from).  Then it moved on to throwing supposed witches into water and if they floated, then they were truly witches, but if they sank then they were not (something like that).  How about slavery?  Should I continue on?  Or is there some possibility that you may understand where I'm coming from?  Don't lecture me about intolerance.  Give those people and inch and they'll take a mile.

September 18, 2008
Click to view p215mmc's profile

Freeman56, while disagreeing with your overall attitude toward other people's opinions, thanks for making me laugh with the quote from "Office Space."

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

I am an English professor myself, so I wanted to comment on ReClaim's post that said, "Not that I'm advocating religion.. but there is just as much proof that God does exist, than their is proof that God does not." 

 

This is an example of the ad ignorantiam logical fallacy. I teach logical fallacies in my Freshman Composition class. Some Philosophy professors teach this as well in classes on logic.

 

LillyBunny was quite correct about the misuse of the semicolon where the colon was the appropriate punctuation mark. LillyBunny was also correct that the correct relative pronoun when referring to a person is "who" and not "that." I am thrilled that so many people still care about what I teach. I wish my students would notice these things in their own writing as much as some of those on this blog do.

 

Since I teach those who are already teachers and those who are in teacher education programs in college, I can say that there are many teachers out there who do not use proper grammar and punctuation even in their written work, and it is sad because their students are at a disadvantage.

 

As to the lone house, the subject of the original report, I do not think its survival was due to divine intervention, as it would be arrogant to assume that this one family deserved such consideration over all of the others. I think it is more likely that it was similar to the old fairy tale about the Big Bad Wolf and the Three Little Pigs. This house was simply built better.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I feel sorry for Saresudog and Superdog1, who believe that everything has a scientific explanation. What a boring way to live

 

Save your phony sympathy. Everything does have an explanation, and maybe if we don't blow ourselves up in an attempt to make sure the rapture happens, in 5,000 or 10,000 or 100,000 years, we'll have those answers.

 

What a boring life it must be believing in fairy tales.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

You can see a Church to the left of the house

 

I wonder why god didn't save the church.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Eng, seriously, now. All kidding aside.

 

My original sentence:  ...I'm going to continue posting here just to make your board existence a living hell.

Your response: And FYI it's bored not board, building something?

 

Did you just go there, eng?  You do know I was referring to your life on this POSTING board, did you not?  Please, dear Raptor Jawsus, I pray to you -- tell me eng is not this stupid.

 

That was a rhetorical request, eng...not that I expect you to understand that concept in the least.  lol

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

LillyBunny was quite correct about the misuse of the semicolon where the colon was the appropriate punctuation mark. LillyBunny was also correct that the correct relative pronoun when referring to a person is "who" and not "that." I am thrilled that so many people still care about what I teach. I wish my students would notice these things in their own writing as much as some of those on this blog do.

 

Soprano, my dear -- merci. You're a wonderful writer, by the by.  :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Freeman56, while disagreeing with your overall attitude toward other people's opinions, thanks for making me laugh with the quote from "Office Space."

 

The Good: You're welcome for the laugh.

 

The Bad: a belief in god is not an opinion, it is a belief. A belief is an opinion with no logical or critical proofs. There is a BIG difference.

September 18, 2008
Click to view rnsfebay's profile

My resilience award goes to these folks and the people they partnered with to build this home!  I hope they will be able to share their learnings with their community.  Drive on everybody!  Be Strong!  The future belongs to you!

 

Resilience Award:

http://sculpturesbynorte.com/x_BlueTorso.asp

 

-Best, -Richardo

September 18, 2008
Click to view superdog1's profile

@Lillybunny: You fail to read for comprehension instead of yourself.  I said I am NOT and english teacher or a writer, which you claim to be.  If you were such a great writer and feel like you should be teaching the english teacher, you would see your use of the word "that" was not needed.  You sound like someone who works at a bookstore and moonlights as a barista.

 

@hoosier95: I couldn't care less about how the earth was created.  What I do care about is how people try to claim they all want to get along but condemn you for not believing what they believe.  The people who are the best at this are the Christians and the Muslims.  Now, I must return to my job because God still hasn't answered my prayers to help me win the lottery.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"I feel sorry for Saresudog and Superdog1, who believe that everything has a scientific explanation. What a boring way to live. Maybe they should just help build another large hadron collider to find out how the universe was created. If you believed in something, you wouldn't have to waste 10 billion dollars on a machine."

 

I keep trying to get out, but they keep pulling me back in.

 

Do you realize what an ignorant statement you just made?  It's funny, you rely on science everyday, i.e., your car, electricity, tv, etc.. Yet you want to backlash against me because I require something besides a simplistic fairy tale approach to life before I can whole heartily believe in it?  So what are you saying about the collider?  That we don't need it because everything is already explained in Genesis.  You are exactly the ignorant moron that I've been railing against for the last hour or so. 

 

Don't feel sorry for me.  Feel sorry for yourself and that bubble that you live in.  For one day it's going to burst.

September 18, 2008
Click to view hoosier95's profile

Don't you think it would be worth believing rather than burning for eternity?  We'll see if your blabbing about fairy tales then FreeMan56.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Soprano2, wow that is great that you teach English as well. As far as the comments towards me, I did not realize blogging was edited or graded for that matter.  So I guess today I learned that blogging is not an enjoyable experience, but rather a place for people to try to come and feel better about themselves while demeaning others.   

 

And to clear things up for LillyBunny, yes I am a teacher working on my master's what a SHOCKER for you. I am still questioning the fact that you are in law school.

September 18, 2008
Click to view hoosier95's profile

Ignorant moron?  I won't stoop to your level and call you names like a little kid Saresudog.  It's funny how you can tell the people that don't believe.  All the hate.  It's sad.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

For anyone who teaches English, proper grammar should be second nature.

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

LillyBunny,

I'd welcome you in the English department. You are catching many of engteacher's errors, though there are  a few more that you haven't listed (a run-on in one response and the use of a comma before "because" to name a couple of examples). By the way, I also teach satire and irony in my classes, so it is at least being taught at the college level, and as I recall, it is in the twelfth grade curriculum as well, at least in California, but I think it is in the national standards as well. I was a consultant in developing course work for high schools. The kids read "A Modest Proposal," and many don't understand the concept of satire at all, unfortunately.

 

Alas, we digress, as the topic was this home.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Don't you think it would be worth believing rather than burning for eternity? We'll see if your blabbing about fairy tales then FreeMan56

 

No, you won't see anything like that.

 

You, however, live a life of burning ignorance, and you keep your eyes closed to logic and smother yourself with lies. You are already IN hell.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

@Lillybunny: You fail to read for comprehension instead of yourself. I said I am NOT and english teacher or a writer, which you claim to be. If you were such a great writer and feel like you should be teaching the english teacher....

Nor did I claim to be "and" English teacher. Whereas the term "that" could be construed as not being necessary in my original sentence, its usage was hardly incorrect. Engteacher's mistakes were blatant and completely improper.

Your frivilous statement that I was correcting an English teacher was hilarious. Eng isn't an English teacher anymore than you are.

Hey. Thaere's a thought: you wouldn't happen to be Eng under yet another account, now would you? No. That would never happen. Eng is new to "blogging."

 

;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view TulsaTX's profile

Can't we all just focus on what's important??? Hurricane Ike did extensive damage to South East Texas.  I live in Humble, which is about 60 miles north of Galveston.  We have almost 60 percent of the area still without power, no ice, no food, and lines 3 hours long at the gas station.  We have damaged homes, damaged hearts and damaged lives.  All I ask is, no matter what your RELIGIOUS beliefs, please pray for us.  We really need it right now.

September 18, 2008
Click to view luckydogla's profile

There is this thing on the EAST COAST where right before a major hurricane one home owner will see a lady on the beach in front of the house. She's said to be wearing white and walking along the beach looking at the house. After the hurrican hits all the houses are gone except for the one where this lady / ghost was seen. Google it, there are a few great true stories about the hurricane ghost lady who saves houses. Maybe the owners of this house saw this lady and didnt think anything of it at the time but she saved their house.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Don't you think it would be worth believing rather than burning for eternity? We'll see if your blabbing about fairy tales then FreeMan56

 

What?  Freeman plans on spending eternity in Southwestern Louisiana in July?

 

:-O

September 18, 2008
Click to view DrEwStEr228's profile

Did anyone notice that there is no debris anywhere in the railings or on the house, no mud on the concrete, no windows broken out, no water marks, the cement pad is obviously undercut which usually would cause it to crack. THIS PICTURE IS A FAKE.  By the way I found a dead bigfoot in the woods by my house would any of you like to purchase it?

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Don't you think it would be worth believing rather than burning for eternity? We'll see if your blabbing about fairy tales then FreeMan56."

 

So you're the judge when we all supposedly get there?  Typical judgmental Christian.  Worth believing?  Are you kidding?  If there is a god and we're all going to be judged, don't you think that he or she's going to see through your fraudulence if you believe because it's "worth believing?"

 

By the way.  Great read Soprano2.  Thanks for bringing some sobriety to this entry.

September 18, 2008
Click to view john827's profile

@ saresudog:  I am a working professional that took some time out of my day to look at an interesting pic.  I did not expect the religion vs science argument.  It is a strawman argument and always has been. Religion and science co-exist in my world.  I am not a fundamentalist.  I am not sure what statement I made that would cause you to assume so.  It is a good thing that we have you around to rail against us poor ignorant morons.  I'm not sure how we would survive without your web posts.   

 

PLEASE SARESUDOG SAVE US!!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

you can tell the people that don't believe. All the hate. It's sad.

 

You can tell the people who believe (by their statements and responses). All the morally superior, yet hypocritical,  rhetoric. That is truly a sad thing.

September 18, 2008
Click to view sonicmike's profile

Alright enuff of this nonsense; if there wasn't a god, there is now; ME! The next time I throw a lightening bolt at that part of the country, there will not be anything standing except a pub (of course they carry delicious Schlitz!).  Rock on LillyBunny!, the rest of you, Hell awaits!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view hoosier95's profile

Not a free man for long FreeMan56....

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

Engteacher:

 

I was not demeaning anyone. When I read my students' work, I correct them so that they may improve. I hope you don't find constructive correction demeaning, as then perhaps you won't be doing it with the right intentions when you teach yourself. While you are correct in your view that a blog isn't presented for a grade, I feel that teachers, especially English teachers, have an extra burden placed on them when they write. I make sure everything I send is proofread, as my students will catch things in emails and such as a friendly "gotcha" moment. That, though, keeps us from thinking too highly of ourselves as models of proper usage.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

All I ask is, no matter what your RELIGIOUS beliefs, please pray for us. We really need it right now.

 

No, you don't need prayers. You need supplies, like fresh water, food, clothing and other necessities. I'll be happy to donate to the Red Cross for you.

September 18, 2008
Click to view AWi's profile
AWi

The island should cleaned of debris and NATURE allowed to return. The barrier islands are too sensitive of an environment to be developed. The people need to build on the mainland and allow the island to be a natural area for the ENJOYMENT and PROTECTION of all. As an architect, I can assure everyone that there is no mystery as to why this house survived: it was built correctly, not expediently.

September 18, 2008
Click to view 91rs's profile

Folks this house is REAL !! It was captured via Satellite recon of the damage to the Bolivar Peninsula. Here is the link;  http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/storms/ike/geo-C25883946.jpg

 

Image: C25883946

Date: 9/14/2008

Time: 22:18:35

Heading: 66.1

 

Just click to enlarge this photo and look at the left end of the frame just blow Hwy 87, you will see this amazing structure.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

Sonicmike,

 

I prefer a cold martini, especially since I'm being condemned to Hell.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

And to clear things up for LillyBunny, yes I am a teacher working on my master's what a SHOCKER for you.

 

No, Eng, you're not.  You're nothing more than a pedestrian troll. 

 

Additionally, the only "shocker" here is your persistent, futile attempt to prove to cyber-strangers that you're (1) a teacher, (2) gleaning your Master's, and/or (3) possess any higher education at all.

 

Pro tip to you:  shouting does not guarantee the reader will hear you.  Are you stomping your little feet and holding your breath, too?  :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view 91rs's profile

pardon my dislexia .. look at the far right end of frame.

 

http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/storms/ike/geo-C25883946.jpg

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

What? Freeman plans on spending eternity in Southwestern Louisiana in July?

 

Hey, you never said you could foretell the future! :P

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Really LOLing at LisaS!

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Hey, you never said you could foretell the future! :P

 

LOL!

 

I'll pray for (or prey on) you my son.  ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Hey, all.  Respective chins up!   Just think of all the advertising revenue we're generating for iReport!

 

:-D

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Not a free man for long FreeMan56

 

Are you threatening me? :D

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Not a free man for long FreeMan56

Are you threatening me?

 

:-O

 

HAHAHAHAHA!

September 18, 2008
Click to view Shalabee's profile

I know it's terrible but hey, the corrector made a typo.  That or this non-English-major'ed engineer missed something.

 

"Thaere's a thought:"

 

Keep up the drivel, I was falling asleep until I decided to click on this :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Are you stomping your little feet and holding your breath, too? :)

 

ROFL! :D

September 18, 2008
Click to view sonicmike's profile

Lisa S'

 

You are in Hell in you live in south Texas, baby...

September 18, 2008
Click to view KatyK's profile

I'm thinking that we can resolve the issue by praying over Engteacher's grammar.

 

Or perhaps preying is more fun?

 

When you write and when you speak, the way in which you present yourself speaks volumes.  I think that holds true on blogs, though not everyone agrees.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Shalabee » I know it's terrible but hey, the corrector made a typo. That or this non-English-major'ed engineer missed something.

"Thaere's a thought:"

Keep up the drivel, I was falling asleep until I decided to click on this

 

LMAO!  I totally did!  Mea maxima culpa, bored board.

 

;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

"Really LOLing at LisaS!"

 

Thanks, and remember to tip your waitress.

September 18, 2008
Click to view idontknow720's profile

You are all unbelievable. I am so sorry I decided to read the comments to this.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

"idontknow720 » You are all unbelievable. I am so sorry I decided to read the comments to this."

 

Apology accepted.

 

:)

September 18, 2008
Click to view loadstah's profile

There is equal evidence of god as lack of evidence: If there is no detectable evidence of water on mar's surface, should we conclude that there never was water there? The only viable evidence of jesus of nazareth is a bunch of stories handed down, translated, interpreted by many generations of people with less than saintly intentions. Free will is wonderful; allowing idiots to define their views instantly for everyone right here, right now, everywhere. Its almost god-like. I think god was busy last saturday. If she missed one house, it was cuz' her damn cell phone distracted her. She feels bad that you don't believe she could miss one house and scour the barrier Bolivar. This house gets a $40K settlement; the slab next door gets $250K, having paid $15K for the last 10 years. Hmmm.  The windows were made by Anderson- the house contractor was Noah and sons. I don't know and she doesn't care that you don't either.

September 18, 2008
Click to view BJinFL's profile

If you check out this picture on the MSN/HD site, you will actually notice a couple of other houses still standing too, particularly a red one in the upper left corner (of the picture). Maybe they were built by the same contractor?

 

Regardless, this is really awful.  I hope that they do not rebuild this area.  Time to let Mother Nature reclaim it.

September 18, 2008
Click to view TulsaTX's profile

Freeman96:

 

You are right in what we need, and any donation is appreciated. Please contact your local Red Cross.

Thanks!

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

Ah, sonicmike, I just moved away from hurricanes.  And I'll be dealing with one of Dante's lower rings of Hell this winter instead.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Thanks, and remember to tip your waitress.

 

HAHAHA!!!  That's usually my tag line...only I add:

 

"I'll be here all week -- you've been a great little audience" before that sentence. ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

LillyBunny - I opted for brevity this time.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Garybob's profile

The real reason this house is standing is not because of mumbo jumbo construction code. How silly.  Everyone knows that haunted houses are impervious to hurricanes and this house probably has a whole bunch of ghosts.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Rancher's profile

America needs to realize that it can't afford everything.  The wealth of this country has been squandered on pointless expenses, like rebuilding storm damage that is just going to happen again.  This house needs to remain the only house in its neighborhood.  If the government is going to pay for it, all the others need to rebuild somewhere else.

September 18, 2008
Click to view sandman2115's profile

Wow, I came on here to look at an amazing picture of someone who actually spent a little more money and still have a house and not have a huge barrage of religous junk.  That has nothing to do with the blog.  We live in America, you are free to believe whatever you want, good, bad or otherwise.  I do not care what you think saresudog, you live your life bashing others and I will live my life happy, doing what I want to do. Grow up and find something that makes you happy without trashing others.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I am so sorry I decided to read the comments

 

You are forgiven.

September 18, 2008
Click to view john827's profile

www.redcross.org

 

click donate from left menu and pick the fund

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

+Freeman96:

 

You are right in what we need, and any donation is appreciated. Please contact your local Red Cross.

Thanks!+

 

You are welcome. I hope everything works out for you. And remember that even atheists care about human life, and you don't have to pray for us, or thank us, we are happy to help just because you need it.

September 18, 2008
Click to view sandman2115's profile

My last comment on the comments, I started reading them and saresdog was the first person to slam the individual who stated that a woman prayer in New Orleans, pretty sure he/she probably saw it on TV and reported it.  Later saresdog states he/she likes to hear others opinions, etc, it is very childish and hipocritical to make hasty comments and then say you want to hear what others say....everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is more right than anyone else. 

 

Hope everyone has a great weekend and thinks work out in the Galveston area.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"You are all unbelievable. I am so sorry I decided to read the comments to this."

 

You should be.  Now get outta here unless you've got something substantial to contribute.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Okay, I just made my cash donation. I hope all of you people down there live long and prosper.

September 18, 2008
Click to view idontknow720's profile

Because what has been written here is of substance.  There were maybe 10 posts that were thoughtful.

September 18, 2008
Click to view 123asd123's profile

This is truly a miracle. All houses in that area should be built that way.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Wow, I came on here to look at an amazing picture of someone who actually spent a little more money and still have a house and not have a huge barrage of religous junk. That has nothing to do with the blog. We live in America, you are free to believe whatever you want, good, bad or otherwise. I do not care what you think saresudog, you live your life bashing others and I will live my life happy, doing what I want to do. Grow up and find something that makes you happy without trashing others."

 

Don't come in here with your over dramatized nonsense.  You're too late to this party.  Come back tonight when I go to sleep.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

everyone is entitled to their own opinion

 

I agree. However, a belief in god is not an opinion. It is a belief. An opinion is a valuable thing only if it is based upon facts.

September 18, 2008
Click to view seadog852's profile

http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/storms/ike/geo-C25883958.jpg

scroll down half way and close to edge on the left. It shows the top view of this house.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Verbose's profile

Rancher...by your logic, things like showering and wiping after using the restroom are unnecessary as well, because we are just going to get that way again...

September 18, 2008
Click to view knows's profile

the last house standing had nothing to do with the construction...there was a church in front of it that was built up on a mound of dirt.That mound of dirt is what made the difference!!! If you look carefully at other pictures you see the excess amount of dirt just a little down on the highway. That is the only thing that is different about that house. If you look carefully at the sattelite pictures the ground on the Gulf side has very little disturbance right there. My family had their homes & businesses about a half a block away. Not a thing remains there-not even debris. If you think it was the construction-ask the other people down street that lost their brand new homes that were the new 14' code & the latest technology.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

There were maybe 10 posts that were thoughtful.

 

And you wrote none of them. Anyway, your opinion is useless. If you want to participate, then please feel free to join in the discussion, otherwise go away and shut up, not necessarily in that order.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

everyone is entitled to their own opinion

 

 

That's become a big problem with this nation.  A sense of unearned entitlement.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Verbose's profile

Opinions aren't useless, only the people who are attached to 90% of them are.

September 18, 2008
Click to view bengi's profile

LillyBunny your making your self look stupid!! Get a grip!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

And, grammatically, it is supposed to be, "everyone is entitled to his or her oen opinion." "Everyone" requires a singular pronoun, not a plural pronoun for proper agreement. Ok, I will go back to grading papers, now.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Shalabee's profile

"That's become a big problem with PEOPLE THAT COMMENT ON BLOGS FOR HOURS AT A TIME. A sense of unearned entitlement. "

 

fixed

September 18, 2008
Click to view idontknow720's profile

FreeMan56~

 

I didn't write what I did to intentionally start an arguement with anyone posting here. I wanted to say what I thought.  The picture is a pretty cool picture. The people on this comment list are not. I guess I am no better than you though, since I felt the need to point out how stupid most of these (your) comments are.

September 18, 2008
Click to view girlinhtown's profile

The answer to robrocklins question is.....the individuals THEMSELVES are paying to have these homes built and they reap the repercussions should something like this happen. It is not mandatory and shouldn't be mandatory to build them to withstand hurricane strength, especially if they are not full-time homes as alot of them are vacation homes. Maybe it was the bank (such as Indy-Mac) that financed the mortgage and they were just too cheap to give them the extra support they needed!

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

Oops oen= own.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is more right than anyone else

 

The hell you say? Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Again, a belief in god is not an opinion, it is a belief. A belief does not inherently deserve respect (nor does an opinion). And yes, some opinions are 'more right' than others. Get used to it, sonny.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

"LillyBunny your making your self look stupid!! Get a grip!!"

 

As opposed to the genius who uses 'your' for 'you're' and a superfluous exclamation point.

September 18, 2008
Click to view sandman2115's profile

Okay, so saresudog, your saying people shouldn't have opinions then?  If not, clarify a bit as this sounds like you want to live in a communist community where no one has any rights except, well you...and you are always right.

 

Enjoy the rest of your argument as I am out and have better things to do than waste away in front of a monitor.

September 18, 2008
Click to view KatyK's profile

Not to mention the omission of a comma after "LillyBunny".

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"I didn't write what I did to intentionally start an arguement with anyone posting here. I wanted to say what I thought. The picture is a pretty cool picture. The people on this comment list are not. I guess I am no better than you though, since I felt the need to point out how stupid most of these (your) comments are."

 

I felt the need to use the restroom 5 minutes ago, but didn't share it with everyone else.  What exactly did you think was going to happen when you posted that?

 

Not taking responsibility for your actions.  Something that goes along with the entitlement thing.

September 18, 2008
Click to view idontknow720's profile

"Not taking responsibility for your actions. Something that goes along with the entitlement thing."

 

Is that what I am doing? Who said anything about not taking responsibility? And an entitlement thing? What are you talking about?

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I didn't write what I did to intentionally start an arguement with anyone posting here. I wanted to say what I thought. The picture is a pretty cool picture. The people on this comment list are not. I guess I am no better than you though, since I felt the need to point out how stupid most of these (your) comments are.

 

You have contributed NOTHING to the discussion. You are now contributing nothing, aside from indirectly suggesting that I am stupid. I have not called anyone stupid, nor do I feel any need to defend my considerable intellect.

 

So, now that your moral high horse has been flayed, what say you?

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

"Not to mention the omission of a comma after "LillyBunny"."

 

Right, KatyK.  But I didn't want bengi to think I was being pedantic.

September 18, 2008
Click to view playjojo's profile

That happened to another house a couple of years ago. I forget where it was, but it was near a shore, and every house around was flattened, but that one. Who's to say why these things happen, but they do. It's very sad that there are so many rude, bitter people out there.

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

Ha ha, Lisa and Katy can join my grammar and punctuation club!

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Okay, so saresudog, your saying people shouldn't have opinions then? If not, clarify a bit as this sounds like you want to live in a communist community where no one has any rights except, well you...and you are always right."

 

"Enjoy the rest of your argument as I am out and have better things to do than waste away in front of a monitor."

 

sandman, please refer to the two statements made previously by Freeman.  That should put it in an easy nutshell for you.  Or maybe not because judging by your responses you don't seem to get anything else either.

 

As for your second comment.  I know.  You have to get outta here so you can prepare for your usual night of torturing children in their sleep. 

 

Keep it real sandman, but not real dumb.

September 18, 2008
Click to view timb123's profile

Guess they forgot to pray last year before they home when it was destroyed!

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

It's very sad that there are so many rude, bitter people out there.

 

Too bad there are so many ignorant people. I already donated to the Red Cross today to help these people. What have YOU done, other than call people rude and bitter, while contributing little else to the discussion?

September 18, 2008
Click to view kalman133's profile

Had the first poster added "Allahuakbar" in the end of his/her message, Saresudog, Freeman56, and LillyBunny wouldn't have shown up trolling around.

September 18, 2008
Click to view 37888's profile

Prayers & People who don't pray:

 

In either case, one of you are right, while the other is wrong.

 

If it's the people who don't pray who're wrong, then I'd hate to be in your shoes on the other side of eternity. Then, you'll pray, but it'll be too late. Your cynicism is noted, as well as your ignorance. However, when you're on the other side, it will be too late, and you will wish that you were on the side of the praying folks.

 

Praying folks: If it is you who're wrong, then you've lost nothing except for the "respect" of folks like 'Little Bunny', 'Saresudog' and the likes - and judging from the tone of their posts, you've not lost a whole heck of a lot there. However, if you're right, then you've gained it all!

 

As for me (as though anyone really cares), I choose to pray because I happen to believe that there is a God (not allah, buddah, kermit the frog, but GOD) who cares about me and listens to me when I pray. You think it a fairy tale that I choose to believe in an all-powerful God, and that's fine, because my alleged 'fairy tale' is going to save me from spending an eternity in a very literal place called "Hell".... And, if you don't change your mind between now and the time that you've drawn your last breath on this side of eternity, you will one day recall this conversation and wish that you'd have listened. Only, then, it will be too late for you.

September 18, 2008
Click to view girlinhtown's profile

Thank you FreeMan56. We so appreciate all the help we can get. I've been one of the lucky ones who has power and water and have been having friends stay with me in my tiny apartment. Any help will mean so much to all of us and you have done us justice!

September 18, 2008
Click to view stargazer401's profile

Defintely a mixed blessing.  Yes, they have their house, but thats it.  No roads, neighbors, yards, stores, hospitals, nothing.  I don't know how they'd be able to live there until everything else was rebuilt.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

Soprano2,

 

I feel that we are fighting a losing battle.  I usually give up during online discussions way before this point, as most people just don't care that they write as if they flunked elementary school.  At least in this discussion, others have been fighting the battle.  Strunk and White forever!

September 18, 2008
Click to view DogBitez's profile

ireporttwo:

There was a house like this in New Orleans. The lady who lived in it said she prayed for the house before she left and when she came back her whole neighborhood was flooded except for her home. Beautiful.

 

This is heartwarming to you? Someone focused on themselves? How about the lady pray for the whole neighborhood, the city, the whole coastline instead? How do you know that if she hadn't prayed for her own home, the neighborhood might not have been washed out -- God was obviously too focused on watching over this self-centered lady's home to be able to protect all the others. ;)  Why are "I prayed for it" stories always rather ugly under the surface?

September 18, 2008
Click to view mudpuppy000's profile

looks like the whole bottom floor is gone, except the supports.  I guess 1/2 of a house is better than no house.

September 18, 2008
Click to view tibu17's profile

How old are you people?

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Had the first poster added "Allahuakbar" in the end of his/her message, Saresudog, Freeman56, and LillyBunny wouldn't have shown up trolling around.

 

Wow, another seer! Do people pay you to foretell alternate realities, or do you just do it for fun? If you do it for fun, I'm having a party next week, and an act like yours would surely go over smashingly! Call me. ;)

 

FYI: a 'troll' is someone who comes in, drops a bomb, then leaves all the chiba monkeys to jibber jabber by themselves.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Had the first poster added "Allahuakbar" in the end of his/her message, Saresudog, Freeman56, and LillyBunny wouldn't have shown up trolling around."

 

Now we're trolling.  Can't you come up with something better than that foolish teenage term.

 

And you know this because?  We've been talking about religion.  That means all religions, Mr. you're picking on Christians.  We're not discriminating here.

September 18, 2008
Click to view eamick's profile

One person mentioned prayer and you people start a riot.  Your parents obviously never taught you about respect.  Why do you feel that it's necessary to engage in pointless attacks on these people?  Do you honestly think it will make a difference?

September 18, 2008
Click to view SurfCity1's profile

It is probably a "Fortified Home."  The concept has been around for years and "The cost of a Fortified house is generally 3 to 5 percent above conventional construction, depending on where you are in the country."

 

See:

 

http://www.insure.com/articles/homeinsurance/fortified-homes.html

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Had the first poster added "Allahuakbar" in the end of his/her message, Saresudog, Freeman56, and LillyBunny wouldn't have shown up trolling around

 

Almost missed this: everyone else is a 'poster' but I am a 'troll'. Would you like to make a statement about tolerance for differing viewpoints, as well? Hypocrite.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

ireporttwo:

"There was a house like this in New Orleans. The lady who lived in it said she prayed for the house before she left and when she came back her whole neighborhood was flooded except for her home. Beautiful."

 

"This is heartwarming to you? Someone focused on themselves? How about the lady pray for the whole neighborhood, the city, the whole coastline instead? How do you know that if she hadn't prayed for her own home, the neighborhood might not have been washed out -- God was obviously too focused on watching over this self-centered lady's home to be able to protect all the others. ;) Why are "I prayed for it" stories always rather ugly under the surface?"

 

And this is how the whole proverbial can of worms was opened in the first place.

September 18, 2008
Click to view DogBitez's profile

stargazer401 »

Defintely a mixed blessing. Yes, they have their house, but thats it. No roads, neighbors, yards, stores, hospitals, nothing.

 

If you had my neighbors, stargazer... you wouldn't call it a "mixed blessing". Har har. This couple will have their own little island for a while, pioneer style. But I have to admit, driving a long distance to buy the milk you forgot to pick up yesterday... that would get old, fast. Think how vulnerable they'll be out there, alone, in the dark. Hope they have a kick-ass security system. Not that any cops will be around to respond.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Rancher's profile

Verbose, if you expect others to wipe your butt after you use the restroom, you deserve to be disappointed.  Why should WE have to clean up their mess?

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

One person mentioned prayer and you people start a riot.

 

Overstating your case is not making a case. There is no rioting, no store windows have been broken, no cars burned.

 

Your parents obviously never taught you about respect.

 

I learned to respect well thought out ideas and concepts I learned to respect truth, reading comprehension and intelligence. I do not respect people who 'believe'. People who 'believe' are stupid. I 'believed' in Santa Claus when I was a child. Does that deserve respect? If I 'believed' that aliens are being bred and mutated at Area 51 to take over the world, do you respect that belief?

 

I have attacked no one, only their 'beliefs'. Is your 'belief' so shaky that it cannot stand proper scrutiny?

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Just a few things I was thinking out loud and decided to write. Lisasimpson - must I please use a cliche' here monkey see monkey do, one person starts talking about grammar then another starts as well great maybe we are in a room full of future educators. 

 

Sandman2115,Bengi and Freeman56 I personally want to thank you for your contributions to the blog very interesting stuff worth reading unlike must I say the other less relevant converstaions.

 

Soprano2, sorry if you felt I was referring to you as being demaning. I took what you said as constructive crtiquing versus bashing what I was saying. You are also absolutely right, we as English teachers do have an extra burden even in chat rooms it does appear.

Also I would love to get your opinions on some issues as I am teaching 11th grade in California and seeing we have only been in school about a month we have not covered satire quite yet.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

On the other hand, stargazer401, you really will be able to gaze at the stars.  There's nothing like having some time with no light pollution to obscure the night sky.  A telescope and a star chart can be wonderful companions.

September 18, 2008
Click to view tnboy76's profile

Hebrews 11:1

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Sorry about my mistakes in the last entry :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view eamick's profile

You believe what you belive, they believe what they believe and I believe what I believe.  What's the big deal?  Some people will always be misguided; I'll leave it up to you to decide who those people are.  I trust you to keep that decision to yourself.

 

The truth of the matter is that Texas was hit with a whopper of a storm, even though it wasn't technically a "major" storm (has to be Cat 3 for that).  Gustav was pretty bad, too.  I rode that one out.  It's eerily familiar to the Katrina/Rita situation a few years back.

 

The freeloaders are back out in full force, feeding off the government teat any chance they can.  The unemployed (because they choose to be) masses line up for thousands of dollars in food stamps.  They list every child in the neighborhood as their own and claim the deceased as dependents.  The uninsured masses groan that the government should make them whole again.  The main theme seems to be "Where can I get mine?".  I'm sick of hearing it.  I'm sorry for everyone who lost anything, but my sympathy is short-lived for those who do not try to do anything for themselves.

 

I'll stop my little rant now.  It had just as much to do with the "miracle house" as the whole religion slant did, so I don't feel too bad...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

"Lisasimpson - must I please use a cliche' here monkey see monkey do, one person starts talking about grammar then another starts as well great maybe we are in a room full of future educators."

 

Engteacher, an English teacher should never resort to cliche.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

To anyone else who thinks I am a troll: I already donated to help these people. I put my money where my mouth is.

 

The best you have done is call me a troll, or stupid. You are hypocrites.

 

So much for your moral high horse.

September 18, 2008
Click to view SannaB's profile

No one has answers to everything. Even the greatest buildings built to withstand the greatest disasters fail. So when one receives a blessing, don't question it, accept it and be glad. If life does not have belief or faith it leaves us just as void as any aftermath of any disaster. Never underestimate the power of prayer for those who believe, it is the strongest shield.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Freeman56 I think you are awesome :) and very original not to mention.

September 18, 2008
Click to view eamick's profile

FreeMan56, you take things way too literally.  And many people would consider an attack on a person's beliefs as an attack on them.  Sometimes non-physical attacks are just as harmful as physical attacks.  Live and let live, man.

September 18, 2008
Click to view girlinhtown's profile

eamick...you weren't here. Cat 2 over 600 miles wide....was as big as Texas and damaged over 5000 square miles. And not all of us are mooching off of the government. We work and are still working despite the tragedies we've all experienced here and are still experiencing. Needless to say, if you were't here....no need to tell us what it was like or how big it was....

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

Wow..just have to jump in here. Bored in Iraq at 12:40 in the morning and almost 7.5 hours left in my shift. You guys are great. Love the debate. Love the idiots. It is all entertaining.

 

Lillybunny will definitely make a great lawyer...she doesn't miss anything! (this is a good thing in my book :))

September 18, 2008
Click to view Schumi's profile

The same thing happened in Slidell, LA after Katrina (which took a near direct hit), in a row of houses on the lake, there was one that appeared undamaged and the rest were completely obliterated. The contractor here did a great job - he may have built it to the Miami-Dade building code, which is very strict and seriously increases costs. But I'm not sure anything short of a bunker could survive an actual cat 5 direct hit. As to the comment about the flagpole, you are looking at the "before" picture - there's no flag in the after pics.

September 18, 2008
Click to view eamick's profile

girlinhtown...  I never downplayed what Texas is going through; I was actually referring to the many people in Louisiana who went through Gustav earlier in the month and are now suckling. 

 

Look, I've been through Katrina, Rita and Gustav in the past three years.  I lost everything to Katrina, and built back up (insurance certainly helped).  Ike was so big it caused more damage at my house.  I may not have been "there" but I was certainly affected.  All of you Texans (and everywhere else Ike spread mayhem) have my sympathy.

September 18, 2008
Click to view DogBitez's profile

engteacher »

Sorry about my mistakes in the last entry

 

Uh, yeah. Do you teach your students how to use a comma? Run-on sentences might be something worth looking into, as well. I'm not usually petty about this type of thing, but when someone has started correcting other participants' grammar (it's board, not bored)... well, it makes you a target for the same. Why don't you focus on your own writing, and cut some slack for the rest of us less-educated simpletons? I don't think blog comments are expected to be typo free and worded with extreme care. We're not writing dissertations.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Freeman56 I think

 

Thanks for the compliments, and I'm glad to see you're thinking. Thinking is the beginning of all great things, and you can quote me on that (because it is mine own quote).

 

Here's another pair of quotes for you, from my own 'pen':

 

Dreams should never be reduced in potency by subjecting them to reality.

 

Google that, and you'll have found me.

 

Obsession is the greatest of all gifts, for without obsession, greatness has purpose. If genius is the vehicle of creation, then obsession surely must be the fuel that powers it.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

Siraq, thanks for your service my hubby is active duty Marine Corp and yes this was a quite entertaining blog today.

September 18, 2008
Click to view kalman133's profile

I didn't know that making donations would entitle the donor with special privilege to degrade others.

September 18, 2008
Click to view girlinhtown's profile

thank you eamick...and i wasn't downplaying any of the other hurricanes that have happened in the recent past. we've all suffered the consequences of these storms in one way or another. part of what i was saying is that this whole blog got started about a lone house standing after a huge storm and it ends up getting away from the point. Again, thank you.....and as a spiritual person, not religious.....we need all the prayers we can get! Pay it forward!

September 18, 2008
Click to view cartwright's profile

liveandlearn, how about a little respect for other people and their beliefs? I certainly don't think bathing in cow urine is spiritual like so many Indians believe it to be, but I don't call them fools.

 

Picture is incredible and perhaps one of those award winning pictures. That's good stuff.

September 18, 2008
Click to view ColForbin's profile

When that thing was out in the ocean they were predicting it to come through my city and I prayed that it wouldn't AND IT WORKED! Ha ha. Too bad Galveston folks. Maybe you should've prayed harder. Or, worse yet, maybe God just likes me more.

 

Get it? So, that's done I can speak seriously. In short, that's the problem with attributing prayer to something good happening in a massive tragedy. You are basically accusing people who didn't have good things happen of either a) not praying hard enough, or b) being less worthy of God's help.

 

If you want to believe in God and believe that prayer works, then do so, but don't belittle your own religion. Praying for worldly things and actions could hardly be considered a Christian virtue. Good things sometimes happen to bad people and bad things sometimes happen to good people. That's life.

September 18, 2008
Click to view justreallyme's profile

So to summarize:

 

1. Should the lady in New Orleans have prayed for her neighbors too?

 

2. Did her prayer work? Where's the evidence?

 

3. Should we the people pay for the failures of others? If a well-built house can withstand Ike then everyone else built badly.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

FreeMan56, you take things way too literally.

 

No, I have what is called 'excellent reading comprehension', and I'm happy it offends you.

 

many people would consider an attack on a person's beliefs as an attack on them

 

Many people also mistakenly 'believe' that Barack Obama called Sarah Palin a pig. Many people used to 'believe' the world was flat. Those people didn't consider anything, they had a 'knee jerk' reaction, or they were just deluded fools.

 

I'll state it again, since you missed it: beliefs do not deserve respect.

September 18, 2008
Click to view SisterRags's profile

I am not a religious fanatic, but I am a spiritual person, and it would be wonderful to read of people respecting others' rights to believe what they wish to believe about their God. If a person finds comfort in prayer, it doesn't hurt anyone. Bitterness, however, is so damaging to oneself and to those around us.

September 18, 2008
Click to view ggillispie's profile

If you decide to live in paradise such as along a beach, in the mountains then you should expect to pay the consequences.  I'm sorry people lost their stuff, but they chose to live there.  I feel the same way when I hear of people losing their homes to wildfires.  If you live in a disaster area then expect a disaster.  Don't expect me to help you pay for your beautiful house on the beach in in the mountains.  Sorry for being harsh, but it's the price you pay for encroaching.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

FreeMan56, what did you mean if the quote was searched I would find you? Pretty great stuff!

September 18, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

Saresudog,

You are sooooooooo blessed that God thinks enough about what your mind thinks and what you want, otherwise, you wouldn't be here to argue with the "Bible beaters". Get a life sweetie, I pray for people like you all the time, and guess what? You have no control over some things, and how awsome it is to know that God is bigger than you or me. It amazes me that angry people want to always blame God.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I didn't know that making donations would entitle the donor with special privilege to degrade others.

 

Just as the ability to use a computer doesn't engender the ability to engage in a discussion in a meaningful or intelligent fashion, or the ability to apply reading comprehension to material that you obviously do not understand.

 

I have degraded no one. They are perfectly able to do that themselves, just as you have done.

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

engteacher-Don't thank me for my serviceI am a contractor and don't deserve any thanks. I get paid well for this job and feel quite guilty about it when we have all these military men/women out working for very little pay. I definitely respect them. But thanks for the kind thoughts! It gets so boring out here in the sandpit/kitty litter box!

September 18, 2008
Click to view eamick's profile

To FreeMan56...  I see you have a very high opinion of yourself.  Good for you!  I hope you get a cookie for all your 'excellent reading comprehension'.  You really didn't offend me, so don't pat yourself on the back too hard.  You're obviously quite the armchair philosopher and a magnificent spin doctor.  You really ought to be in politics, if you aren't already.  Seriously, it's pretty impressive.  Have a great evening, worthy adversary.

 

 

To girlinhtown...  Be safe.  Never give up.  It does actually get better.  :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

FreeMan56, what did you mean if the quote was searched I would find you? Pretty great stuff!

 

So, you found me. ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

I do believe I did :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view BushBGone's profile

So Fake! I lived in Texas for one year and I learned to be very, very careful about what they say.  Big liars, I found.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I am not a religious fanatic, but I am a spiritual person, and it would be wonderful to read of people respecting others' rights to believe what they wish to believe about their God

 

And their right to believe and spout their beliefs trumps my right to do the same, or to have a discussion about it?

 

Oh, the irony. Apparently freedom of speech, freedom of expression and freedom of thought are concepts that are beyond your ken.

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

I find this whole religion debate fascinating. I have a minor in religion just because I was curious. Raised by a Jewish dad and a mother who converted from Catholicism to Judaism. I never had grandparents because of the whole religious controversy--they wouldn't accept their grandkids (my brother and I) because we weren't the "right" religion.

I am puzzled as to why someone can pray for a loved one to get better and when they do they praise g-d and not the doctor who saved the person. Also puzzling is when someone prays for a sick child and when the child dies then it was "g-ds will". Why would any caring g-d want people to suffer???? It is too confusing for me but I do love reading the debate about it.

September 18, 2008
Click to view quail's profile

just wanted to say without God there would be no atheists.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"I didn't know that making donations would entitle the donor with special privilege to degrade others."

 

I always love when people get smacked with doses of reality and they refer to it as degradation.

September 18, 2008
Click to view SanguineDog's profile

I am not an English teacher, nor an professional editor.  However, I think Soprano2's following sentence is a run-on.

 

"By the way, I also teach satire and irony in my classes, so it is at least being taught at the college level, and as I recall, it is in the twelfth grade curriculum as well, at least in California, but I think it is in the national standards as well." Soprano2

 

Perhaps I am wrong and the sentence can be proven gramatically correct.  However, it certainly could have been written more effectively.  Additionally, I would have self-edited the repeated use of "at least" and "as well".

September 18, 2008
Click to view DrTina's profile

Of interest to the prayer debate, from a paper called Research on the Healing Power of Distant Intercessory Prayer: Disconnect between Science and Faith, a journal article by Kevin S. Masters; Journal of Psychology and Theology, Vol. 33, 2005.

 

(note: IP stands for intercessory prayer)

 

Empirical Research on IP

 

Harris and colleagues (1999) conducted a study designed as a more methodologically stringent replication of Byrd (1988), which is probably the best-known IP study to date. They utilized a "randomized, controlled, double-blind, prospective, parallel-group trial" (p. 2273) to test whether IP would reduce over-all adverse events and length of stay in a coronary care unit (CCU). At the time of admission 1013 consecutive patients were randomly assigned to either a usual care (control) group (n = 529; 52%) or a prayer group (n = 484; 48%).

 

Several measures of outcome were included. The most important was an overall, global, measure of the course of patient hospital stays. This measure used a weighted (for severity) total of negative events that occurred during the stay so that a lower score indicated a stay with fewer comorbid conditions or complications. The authors also reported an unweighted count of these same conditions or complications. The outcome measure used in the Byrd (1988) study was also employed as was a determination of length of stay. Finally, the individual components of the global measure were tested for between group differences using a statistical probability correction to adjust the alpha level for multiple comparisons (something Byrd did not do).

 

The results from this study are typical of the results from other studies that found a beneficial effect for IP (not all did) in that the benefits were not consistent across measures. For example, a statistically significant difference favoring the prayer group was found on the global measure of outcome but none of the 34 individual components of this measure, including death, showed this same difference. Further, the study specifically failed to replicate the Byrd study as no differences were found on the measure used by Byrd. It is important to also note that, despite the directive to pray for a speedy recovery, there were no differences in length of stay between the groups. Nevertheless, the study did find an 11% reduction in scores on the weighted global measure of outcome in the prayer group when compared to the control and a 10% reduction on the unweighted global measure.

 

Ref. for Byrd study mentioned here: Byrd, R. C. (1988). Positive therapeutic effects of intercessory prayer in a coronary care unit population. Southern Medical Journal, 81, 826-829.

 

My conclusion? From an empirical standpoint, the jury is still out. The evidence shows some benefit in some areas, so it is not sound science to just toss the whole notion of benefit out. Really, we are just beginning to unravel these things. It is important to stay open, skeptical, and look at evidence beyond our own experiences.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

To FreeMan56... I see you have a very high opinion of yourself. Good for you! I hope you get a cookie for all your 'excellent reading comprehension'

 

Cookie?!?!? The only thing that having excellent reading comprehension gets you in today's world is unwarranted ridicule, antagonism and grief. Plus you have to explain yourself a lot, and people still don't understand.

 

No, it is a curse, I tell you. A curse.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

SanguineDog -

 

It is a sentence with multiple clauses, but it is not a run-on sentence.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

just wanted to say without God there would be no atheists

 

Amen. Pun intended. I'd much rather talk about constellations or auto mechanics or architecture.

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

DrTina--a lot of those trials for prayer don't take into account that people who are praying have a more positive attitude than the people not praying. Maybe the positive attitude is what leads to the positive outcome and it has nothing to do with religion or the prayer itself...just a thought.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

DrTina, it would further any debate if you were to include links to the study, including methodologies and results before conclusions. For instance, was the study performed in a truly scientific manner, with no preconceived ideas about the results?

 

Or, is it possible, or even likely that these results were a foregone conclusion, and the data were manipulated to produce the desired result? One study does not a solid presumption make.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Saresudog,

"You are sooooooooo blessed that God thinks enough about what your mind thinks and what you want, otherwise, you wouldn't be here to argue with the "Bible beaters". Get a life sweetie, I pray for people like you all the time, and guess what? You have no control over some things, and how awsome it is to know that God is bigger than you or me. It amazes me that angry people want to always blame God."

 

So I'm confused hsmom.  Are you saying that I'm angry and I'm blaming god?  Where in hades did you get that ridiculous idea?  I never said that I did have control over everything genius.  That's the great part about it.  I don't have all the answers and neither do you.

 

You wanna pray for me (I doubt that you will because that's just something that you Christians throw around to make yourself feel important) don't.  My life is great and I don't need your prayers. 

 

How about praying for the children put into slavery everyday.  How about praying for war torn Africa.  I could go on, but you're wasting my time.  Where is your god when those people need him the most?  It's easy for you to sit over here in your air conditioned house, with a job, having all the luxuries that life has to offer, and being able to do what you want when you want.  I'd like to see how you'd feel if you had to step into the shoes of those that I stated.  How would you feel then?

 

You are very patronizing, and as freeman stated earlier, stop with your moral superiority bs.  It doesn't suit you well.

 

Freeman.  Have a great evening.  I enjoyed your banter and repartee.  Googled you and I see what you're up to.  We'll have to socialize more often.

 

As for me, I'm going to happy hour.  Good night and good luck!

September 18, 2008
Click to view DrTina's profile

Other studies in this area are below. I share them only b/c I think it is important to realize there are people who take this seriously enough to study it. Some show clinically significant benefit, others do not.

 

A real measure of intelligence is the ability to take in various forms of evidence and come up with sound conclusions - which may not be as clear as either "prayer works" or "prayer doesn't".

 

In the interest of full disclosure: I have been a Buddhist since 1997. I am also not a great speller, so please, no haters.

 

Aviles, J. M., Whelan, S. E., Hernke, D. A., Williams, B. A., Kenny, K. E., O'Fallon, W. M., et al. (2001). Intercessory prayer and cardiovascular disease progression in a coronary care unit population: A randomized controlled trial. Mayo Clinical Proceedings, 76, 1192-1198.

 

Barncs, P., Powell-Griner, E., McFann, K., & Nahin, R. (2002). CDC advance data report #343: Complementary and alternative medicine use among adults: United States, 2002. U.S. Government: Washington, DC.

 

Byrd, R. C. (1988). Positive therapeutic effects of intercessory prayer in a coronary care unit population. Southern Medical Journal, 81, 826-829.

 

Cha, K. Y., Wirth, D. P., & Lobo, R. A. (2001). Does prayer influence the success of in vitro fertilization-embryo transfer? The Journal of Reproductive Medicine, 46, 781-787.

 

Chibnall, J. T., Jeral, J. M., & Cerullo, M. A. (2001). Experiments on distant intercessory prayer. Archives of Internal Medicine, 161, 2529-2536.

 

Clark, K. M., Friedman, H. S., & Martin, L. R. (1999). A longitudinal study of religiosity and mortality risk. Journal of Health Psychology, 4, 381-392.

 

Collipp, P. J. (1969). The efficacy of prayer: A triple-blind study. Medical Times, 97, 201-204.

 

Harris, W. S., Gowda, M., Kolb, J. W., Strychacz, C. P., Vacek, J. L., Jones, P. G., et al. (1999). A randomized, controlled trial of the effects of remote, intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients admitted to the coronary care unit. Archives of Internal Medicine, 159, 2273-2278.

 

Joyce, C. R., & Welldon, R. M. (1965). The objective efficacy of prayer: A double-blind clinical trial. Journal of Chronic Diseases, 18, 367-377.

 

Matthews, D. A., Marlowe, S. M., & MacNutt, F. S. (2000). Effects of intercessory prayer on patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Southern Medical Journal, 93, 1177-1186.

 

Tloczynski, J., & Fritzsch, S. (2002). Intercessory prayer in psychological well-being: Using a multiple-baseline, across-subjects design. Psychological Reports, 91, 731-741.

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

SanguineDog:

 

The sentence you quote should have been condensed and the wordiness removed, but it was not a run-on. Since you brought it up, let me explain that a run-on sentence consists of two or more independent clauses (complete sentences)joined by a coordinating conjunction that does not have a comma before the coordinating conjunction. When two sentences are joined by a coordinating conjunction, there must be a comma preceding it. As you can see, my coordinating conjunctions do have commas before them, so no run-on existed. Thanks, Lisa, for noting that.

 

engteacher: I'd be happy to discuss your issues or questions on another forum (let me know where). I am sure the folks here would not be enthusiastic to engage in that in this venue.

September 18, 2008
Click to view DrTina's profile

Siraq: Yes, I agree.

 

Freeman 56: Links to the studies? Try Questia or another online database, or a library.

 

re your question: "For instance, was the study performed in a truly scientific manner, with no preconceived ideas about the results?"

 

Of course, we can never be sure. Being skeptical and curious is good. I tend to have more trust in peer-reviewed journals, which (in theory) hold the researchers to scrutiny re design of their methods.  One on the list I put up is triple blind, and this one was double blind.  This is from the study I quoted at length:

 

"It is important to note that the patients did not know to which group they were assigned; in fact, they did not even know that a study was taking place. This was also true of their physicians and other hospital staff.

 

Group assignment was made on a random basis, daily, by the secretary in the chaplain's office using the computer record of new admissions to the coronary care unit. For patients assigned to the prayer group, the secretary contacted a prayer team leader and informed him/her of the patient's first name only. No other demographic or medical information was provided to intercessors. The prayer leader subsequently called the other 4 persons on the intercessor team. All total there were 15 intercessor teams of 5 members each. The intercessors could be associated with any denomination but had to agree with the following statement: "I believe in God. I believe that He is personal and is concerned with individual lives. I further believe that He is responsive to prayers for healing made on behalf of the sick" (p. 2274). The intercessors were primarily women (87%) and all reported at least weekly church attendance.

 

As the name implies, the usual care patients received their normal medical care. They also received any other usual care that would be provided, notably, if patients in this group happened to request prayer from the chaplain during their stay it was provided for them. The authors indicate that typically about 5% of CCU patients request prayer (though the number for this particular sample was not provided) and, remember, the chaplain was also blinded to experimental group membership of the patients. The members of the prayer group received daily prayer over a period of 28 days from the 5 intercessors assigned to their case. Specifically, the intercessors were instructed to pray for "a speedy recovery with no complications" (p. 2274)."

 

One point of interest is that while there was a clinically significant result on global wellness measures, there was no difference in the time of recovery (note that the prayer specifically included intercession for a "speedy recovery").  That is one reason I conclude we really don't know. At least not using this system (empirical research) as a way of knowing.

September 18, 2008
Click to view JimAZ's profile

Good Grief! (I didn't say good god so no flaming me!). The piece was about an odd occurence, the first post had the word prayer in it and intolerance takes over! This is what is wrong with this country (oh crap ... I mean in my opinion), the insistence by people on both sides of an argument that their world view is the only possible one (don't bother writing back to say you didn't say that Suse, your post are right above this one. You have said a number of times in a dozen ways that you are right and everybody  who doesn't agree is wrong). And iReport99 .. I know you didnt ask for people to be this judgemental but if you were as comfortable in your beliefs as you would have us all believe you would simply pray for the heathens and go back to the real subject of this blog. God (if there is one! I never said there was or wasn't!) doesn't need you to defend his stance. In the end you are as intolerant as Suse, and less willing to allow the perception that you have lost the argument by simply showing you couldn't care less. If you believe, nothing else matters.

 

The internet makes idiots of us all. We have conversations so rude on the internet that we would be stunned if we had it in person. We throw unbelievable BS around like it's fact and expect everybody to call us a genius for our trouble.

Half of these posts state opinion as fact (that was an Ironic statement. For those who think they know what Irony is ... look it up I am 88.7% sure it isn't what you think ... damn, did it again). Our opinions are based on who we are and where we come from, not on facts that only exist in our minds. I am scared everytime I read a a string like this. I am going to go home and bury my head under the covers and not come out until GI Joe and Strawberry Shortcake get elected and I can come out (look I changed the subject again! lets all turn this into a political argument!)  Oh yeah, the house still being there shows a great deal of structural planning and very little consequential consideration. (Oh go look it up).

September 18, 2008
Click to view kingofthenet's profile

Come on people, lets cut the "God flame war" This is about this house. It is shocking how people will pay HUGE bucks for Granite Counter Tops, Stainless Steel Commercial-Like appliances, Fancy Flooring, and NEGLECT the Basic Structural integrity stuff, I guess it's a case of out of site out of mind.You cant see 2X8's and thicker 3/4" Plywood, better gauge wires, more braces etc. I can tell you right now If I were custom building a house I'd prefer to have that along with auto rolldown metal shutters, and well designed roof, stronger doors and windows,and on site auto generator for power and if I lived in a say a fire area a heavy duty house and lawn sprinkler system.Because you can't look at the pretty wood floor if it's burnt up or your sitting in the dark...

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Re: Trolls -- just so you guys know, "engteacher" is now sending me harassing e-mails through the e-mailing feature on this site.

 

Interesting, no?

 

:-\

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

soprano2 » And, grammatically, it is supposed to be, "everyone is entitled to his or her oen opinion." "Everyone" requires a singular pronoun, not a plural pronoun for proper agreement. Ok, I will go back to grading papers, now.

 

Soprano -- are you sure we weren't separated at birth?

 

;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view UsedToBeGOP's profile

I'm really starting to believe that it's simply not possible for a conversation to remain on topic until the conversation reaches a logical conclusion.  It seems that most discussions quickly devolve into something so far removed from the original post that all relevancy is lost.  Welcome (back) to Short Attention Span Theater.

 

I'll make an effort to try to bring the discussion back on topic.  The architects, engineers and builders of the home in the photos should be the first consultants for the next revision of the TX building codes for coastal areas.  As a TX resident, I'm not excited about how our insurance rates will be affected by Ike.  Residential and commercial construction in coastal areas must be to the absolute highest standards, not to the standards of the lowest bidder.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Perhaps I am wrong and the sentence can be proven gramatically correct. However, it certainly could have been written more effectively. Additionally, I would have self-edited the repeated use of "at least" and "as well".

 

So, initial you were super and now you're merely sanguine? 

 

No.  That's not a run on sentence.  Also, please put your period inside your end quote.

 

Thanks ever so.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Correction:  "initial" should be "initially."

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

So, in other words, the tests did not conclusively prove that prayer helped or did not help, and that another study might be done with different patients that would produce entirely different results.

 

I see nothing there to change my mind. If prayer really did work, there would be no ambiguity, and we both know from the perspective of pure science, there can be no dispute with that conclusion.

 

If we really want to get down to it, we can judge god by the company 'he' fosters, or the company that keeps 'him'. As can be seen in this 'thread', the thumpers have been rude, insulting and generally not up to the level of conversation. It has been suggested that they should be left alone to their delusions, so as not to disturb their faith, but I ask you: how can you disturb the faith of someone who believes in god? Is their faith not enough to stand the rigors of civil and intelligent conversation? Are their beliefs so insecure that they must recoil in horror that someone tells them their beliefs are delusions?

 

No, I am sure of one thing: there is no god. Prayer either works, or it does not: there should be no ambiguity. To blather on about mysteries and things we cannot understand, I have to say bull. Anything that cannot stand up to scrutiny fails. Other beliefs all lead to Armageddon.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Doodles's profile

Ya'll is trippin'....lol....chill out!

September 18, 2008
Click to view KatyK's profile

LillyBunny, you could send them back with red corrections; then again, you wouldn't get anything else accomplished in your day.

 

Sadly, I live in one of the notoriously poor SAT score states.  I am in dread that s/he is teaching nearby.

September 18, 2008
Click to view mrrob's profile

why bother making your home so strong it can stand up to such forces when everything around you blows away. yes, you still have a house, with nothing but devastation surrounding you to look at, why would you want to live there.

September 18, 2008
Click to view DrTina's profile

FreeMan: to be clear, I was not trying to change your mind, only point out that we really can not say for sure one way or another, at lest not from empirical studies.

 

You have looked at the evidence and stated your criteria for belief in  prayer having any significant influence on an outcome is that it must work 100% of the time.

 

Fair enough.

September 18, 2008
Click to view LillyBunny's profile

Hey, Katy!  I fear you're right.  ;)

 

I also currently live in one of the poor SAT score states.  We've only been here two years and my husband is interviewing (as am I) to get the hell out of Dodge.

 

I don't think she (if we to believe she's a "she") is teaching anywhere. I think she is a troll and has manifested in several incarnations today on this thread -- just look for the ones that bolster her flawed position.

 

;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view sph001's profile

Remember the twilight zone episode where the valley all goes dark from power failure - except for one home. The neighbors eventually thought the owners were aliens.

 

Same here -they are aliens I tell ya!!! No other explanation is possible....   can't you hear Rod Serling!

September 18, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

Saresudog,

"Where is your god when those people need him the most"?

 

  My God didn't say this life would be easy. Bad things happen to good and bad people. God is always with us no matter what. God does not cause bad things to happen, Satan does. I think it would be a sad situation to be in the shoes of those people that you mentioned, and I do pray for those people as well. We all take our good life for granted everyday. Having morals doesn't make me superior to you or anyone else. Nobody is bigger than God, who is the only God of the universe. One day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess (even yours) that he is God. What a great challenge God has given me to pray for you.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

One summer while we were in high school, my brother and I went to a housing construction site to hire on as laborers (you know, tote that barge and lift that bale kind of stuff). The first day we were handed blueprints and told to frame the second story of the house on which we were working (the sort of thing a certified carpenter is supposed to do). Fortunately, we both had some experience from shop classes and so were able to do a fairly competent job. Regardless, the houses were constructed poorly and cheaply.

 

My eventual goal is to design and construct my own house to withstand whatever nature has in store for the particular area I decide to live.

 

Re: the picture - I saw it in our local paper two days ago and kept it because of the incredible impact it has.

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

mrrob--my parents built a house on the coast and they had to build to specifications set forth by the insurance company or they couldn't get insurance. Things such as being 13 feet off the ground and they also have these funky things called hydrostatic vents. If a hurricane does come, all the houses around them should still be standing and then hopefully the state won't get gouged by people looking for money to rebuild using the same crappy standards they used previously.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Of course DrTina, I could say that it always rains in May. That doesn't make it true.

 

The problem arises when people are so blinded by their beliefs as to disconnect from their critical thinking process, and that endangers everyone, not just you or I. Blowing yourself up for seventy-two virgin sexual encounters in the afterlife is a good start.

 

This is a rapidly growing problem: people disconnecting from facts to base their opinions on beliefs, and that is simply not acceptable. The only time a person's beliefs should have any bearing is once we know a person and their critical thought processes. A person with poor critical thinking is not someone to lead an expedition into a wilderness area, for example. This is a very personal example for me, as I was once unfortunate enough to be with someone with less than acceptable critical thinking ability (and navigation skills). Had any of our party followed the 'leader', we would have been lost on a dark trail, with darkness rapidly approaching, instead of enjoying a lobster dinner on the shore. ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view KatyK's profile

"Incarnations"?! Oh, I suppose now you are going to say that you believe in reincarnation!  Just when we had the religious debate to a dull roar, you had to stir up something else..

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

LillyBunny:

 

I don't think we were separated at birth, but then again, I don't remember a whole lot from that day. I was very young at the time! Wow, you are a person who knows that periods go inside quotation marks. That is really impressive. We English teachers do get off on things  like that, and when we see proper usage of colons and semicolons, it makes our hearts flutter! I have a great many thoughts about the quality of education, SAT scores, and the like, but this is not the right outlet for that, as some of the posters above have commented. For Arlo Guthrie (Alice's Restaurant) fans, remember this is a song about Alice.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

God is always with us no matter what. God does not cause bad things to happen, Satan does.

 

This is a perfect example of a person whose critical thinking has gone to lunch, and is not returning.

September 18, 2008
Click to view IMABELIEVER's profile

I looked at the pic--truly amazing. But reading every comment listed depressed me. When did we get so mean and hateful to one another? Why does tolerance only swing one way? Why is it okay to make fun of what I believe as a Christian but we hold beliefs of Muslims, Atheists and Hindus as sacred? When did I, as a Christian in AMERICA, become the target and the enemy????

 

One day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings...I didn't write that...I "stole it" from God. Take it up with Him if you don't believe it.

 

Of course, you can't....if you don't believe in HIM.  So sad...because He still believes in YOU.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Doodles's profile

Freeman, I respect your comments and very well stated I might add. It is not up to me to convince you if God is real or if prayer works. I simply want to share with you my thoughts. When I look at my son and see the best of me in him I truly understand the love of God. Free will is a gift and although I've done my best to teach my son well, he will make his own decisions and choices. They will probably will not always be the right ones but I will be always be there to help him and to love him. But most of all I will always pray for charity, hope and love. I wish you well and hope that goodness will come your way. Take care FreeMan56

 

PS I hope you don't mind my little statement before I was just trying to lighten the mood a little. Have a great day.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

soprano2:

 

I liked the fact that LillyBunny asked if the engteach is in the U.S., identifying that this is an American custom. The U.K. tends to place the punctuation outside the quote, unless it is a direct part of the quote.

 

Ex 1: Some people tend to use the work "like", leaving the impression they are dull witted.

 

Ex 2: I told her, "Don't write on that paper."

September 18, 2008
Click to view KatyK's profile

LillyBunny and soprano2, do you remember the story on CNN a while back about those two men who are on a mission to correct erroneous spelling and grammar in public places?  They were charged, I think, when they altered something in a national park.  I'm not condoning destruction of property, but don't you ever have the urge to carry a Sharpie in your pockets as well?

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

FurryBeast:

 

Yes, I am aware the punctuation rules vary in the UK. I was also trained in the British system as a child when I was educated abroad. So, you are quite right. American texts have simplified this somewhat. I was assuming that the posters on this site were following American standards, and I should not have assumed that.

 

Katy:

I am constantly overwhelmed by the urge to fix spelling and punctuation on public signs, storefronts, and so on. There are certain things, such as the improper use of apostrophes to make plurals, that drive me crazy, but I just suffer to myself or yell at my husband in the car to look at what I have seen. It's an occupational hazard, I'm afraid.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

When did I, as a Christian in AMERICA, become the target and the enemy????

One day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings...I didn't write that...I "stole it" from God. Take it up with Him if you don't believe it.

 

That's how you became the enemy - saying that your god is the only god. The really frustrating thing is that you claim you know this because he told you so. This makes it very hard to hold a rational conversation with you...it always ends with the old, "One day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess..."

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

reading every comment listed depressed me.

 

How can you be depressed when everything that happens here is according to god's plan? You should be rejoicing! Geez, why is it that I understand your religion better than you do?

 

When did we get so mean and hateful to one another?

 

? You need to go back to your bible. There is plenty of hate in there. You surely didn't need to come here to find it (I know, I shouldn't call you Shirley...).

 

Why does tolerance only swing one way?

 

Why is it down to tolerance? Why do we have to tolerate anything we find ignorant and offensive? Do religious people live within those constraints? I see more intolerance from religious people than anyone. Ask a pro-life person why they don't support a woman's right to those her own destiny, not one that you laid out for her because of your beliefs.

 

When thou art confused, look to thyself, thy innermost self, for answers. They are all there.

 

Why is it okay to make fun of what I believe as a Christian but we hold beliefs of Muslims, Atheists and Hindus as sacred? When did I, as a Christian in AMERICA, become the target and the enemy????

 

Anyone who worships deities is not to be trusted. Then again, no humans are to be trusted. We shouldn't trust any space aliens that might conceivably land tomorrow in New Mexico (or anywhere else), either.

 

One day, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of lords and King of kings

 

YSO (Yeah, Sure, Okay)

September 18, 2008
Click to view MLB59's profile

Who cares about someone's quotation marks in a blog?  We're supposed to be here talking about one house standing.  If that doesn't scream "Miracle".  I don't know what does.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

FreeMan56:

 

I just wanted to say, "Keep up the good work; we're all counting on you."

September 18, 2008
Click to view LisaSimpson's profile

FurryBeact -

 

Yes, you are correct.  Somehow along the way, I learned a lot of British grammar habits, including putting the punctuation oustside the quotation marks when it is not part of the direct quote.  I also picked up the British pronunciation of 'miscellany', though I don't know how.  British editions of Agatha Christie novels combined with too much Masterpiece Theater?

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

Soprano2:

 

I empathize with you. It's almost impossible to read a newspaper. I feel like I spend more time critiquing the grammer than reading the content. I drive my wife crazy pointing out the errors all the time.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

+Freeman, I respect your comments and very well stated I might add. It is not up to me to convince you if God is real or if prayer works. I simply want to share with you my thoughts. When I look at my son and see the best of me in him I truly understand the love of God. Free will is a gift and although I've done my best to teach my son well, he will make his own decisions and choices. They will probably will not always be the right ones but I will be always be there to help him and to love him. But most of all I will always pray for charity, hope and love. I wish you well and hope that goodness will come your way. Take care FreeMan56

 

PS I hope you don't mind my little statement before I was just trying to lighten the mood a little. Have a great day.+

 

Now THIS is a perfect example of the kind of person whom I would love to have a long conversation with.

 

BTW, I know exactly what you are saying. That 'thing' that you feel, that you think is god? Guess what? That is YOU. You are a wonderful human being. Wait, you are a magnificent human being, just as I am. Praise that. Hope can best be described as our dreams projecting their desires upon our ego.

 

And remember: Dreams should never be reduced in potency by subjecting them to reality.

 

Let's have a beer sometime. :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

The one house left standing wasn't a miracle--it was smart people who got a good builder!

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

I think what it screams is "good construction." You don't really want to open the "miracle" can of worms again, I don't think, because it begs so many questions. I am quite sure that almost everyone whose houses were destroyed were also praying, hoping, and fill in the verb that their homes would survive. I guess if I lived in an area prone to storms like that, I'd pray for a great contractor rather than a miracle.

September 18, 2008
Click to view KatyK's profile

I think FurryBeast hit the nail on the head with the conclusion that saying that one's god is the only god is the root of the problem.  You are perfectly entitled to believe whatever you choose, but you do not have the right to tell others what to believe.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

+FreeMan56:

 

I just wanted to say, "Keep up the good work; we're all counting on you."+

 

LOL! I almost fell back in my chair from reading this! Thank you! :)

 

Now I'm going to have nightmares with Leslie Nielsen in them!

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

LisaSimpson (best female character on TV):

 

I know what you mean about pronunciation. I have a tendency to use the English version. I once dated a German woman and when her father heard me say "aluminum" in that manner, he read me the riot act.

September 18, 2008
Click to view siraq's profile

ARGH! Sometimes I want to scream at these people. I absolutely hate it when they say things like "g-d cured the child"gee, not that it was chemotherapy or various other drugs that cured the kid...nooooo it had to be g-d and of course it had to be a "miracle". Whoooo. Wowbeing in Iraq has made me quite cynical.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I certainly thought of quality construction, or more precisely, look at all the crap construction that wasn't left afterwards.

 

I presume that it didn't require any screaming, however.

September 18, 2008
Click to view TCBPgh's profile

Just jumped backed on after 1 comment during my lunch hour and I see that some of you crazies have been arguing for HOURS!!!  Do you actually work...at work???

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

LOL! I almost fell back in my chair from reading this! Thank you!

Now I'm going to have nightmares with Leslie Nielsen in them!

 

Well, you started it by calling IMABELIVER "Shirley".

 

Pleasant dreams ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view kingofthenet's profile

Quote:

     

mrrob »

why bother making your home so strong it can stand up to such forces when everything around you blows away. yes, you still have a house, with nothing but devastation surrounding you to look at, why would you want to live there.

 

Well because YOU still get to live in a REAL house NOT a FEMA trailer. Most people aren't loaded down with huge piles of cash, sure it sucks the Neighborhood is gone for a while, but the displacement,haggling with the insurance company(if you are lucky enough to have GOOD insurance), loss of all your personal stuff etc, is FAR, FAR worse than having a "bad view" for a couple of years.

September 18, 2008
Click to view lordcack2005's profile

Trust is an illusion people came up with (just like beliefs). We have no need to trust someone, trusting someone is asking for trouble.

 

You are the only thing in this world you have and you can't always even "trust" yourself. Somewhere along the line you will make a mistake you either regret or strongly feel you shouldn't have made. I mean even if those people did pay someone a great amount of money to have them engineer a home that could withstand a hurricane, it appears they didn't trust the engineering enough to stay.... and in a situation like that, I wouldn't trust that god could save me either, thats ignorance.

 

I think that wether there is or isn't a god (or God depending on wether or not your a Christian) is up to the individual. But, I think that spreading the word about your god is an allowable side to your belief. However, saying that everyone else is wrong because your beliefs say they are is also ignorance.

 

Its just as true for christians as it is for athiests. You don't want to hear their is a god, they don't want to be hassled because they think their is one. Its ignorance in abundance on both sides of this discussion. To think otherwise shows everyone here your intelligence.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Do you actually work...at work???

 

Not everyone works from nine to five. Not everyone works from Monday through Friday.

 

Guess I must be crazy. :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

I wonder if that family will be a high priority in terms of regaining services since it appears to one of very few that can return. I would think that if I were managing the rebuild, I would put my preliminary efforts into restoring the neighborhoods that can benefit the most people.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Ouka's profile

Ya know, it would really behoove the lot of ya'll to take a look at the full image of that center pic, taken when everything around was still standing.

 

You can clearly see that the other home sin the neighboorhood were NOT on stilts.  This is why they are no longer there. 

 

No special building codes, no special contractor methods, no need for the hand of god to intervene, no need for prayer.

 

Simple gemoetry and physics.  That's it.

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

If you click on the "after" picture, someone said that if you examine the area underneath the house, the foundation has all been washed away and will need to be torn down, as it would never pass inspection.

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

Oh, no, wait, another said it can be redone. I am not in the trade, so I don't know.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Its just as true for christians as it is for athiests. You don't want to hear their is a god, they don't want to be hassled because they think their is one.

 

No, thinking and believing are two different things. Anyone can believe something with no proof, thinking requires going through a much more rigorous process than just believing.

 

Again, what does someone who has faith to fear from disbelievers, unless they are not worthy? Besides, this is all according to god's plan, just like your inability to know the proper use of the words their, there and they're, and then casting aspersions as to the intelligence of others.

 

I seem to remember a story about a glass house and stones... ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view TCBPgh's profile

Just surprised that, regardless of being at work or not, someone would spend 5 hours on a blog about a picture of a house.  A little kwazy...

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

I am outta here!

 

It's been fun and intellectually stimulating!

 

Peace be with you.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

FreeMan56:

 

It's like the movie Dogma where the Voice of God claims he's afraid of beliefs because they can cause suffering and damage, but he likes ideas because they lead to understanding.

September 18, 2008
Click to view FreeMan56's profile

Just surprised that, regardless of being at work or not, someone would spend 5 hours on a blog about a picture of a house.

 

Yeah, had nothing to do today. Sometimes it's like that. Not crazy, as I noted. It was intellectually stimulating.

 

Use that thing between your ears or lose it (hint: the more you use it, the better it gets). ;)

 

Cheers.

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

I think it's nice that TCB is so concerned about us or our employers. I guess he or she is thinking that we are in front of a monitor in a cubicle someplace with a boss hovering nearby. As Freeman56 said, not all of us have conventional jobs in offices. I work at home, and I am not on anyone's clock, so I am working AND glancing at this conversation.

September 18, 2008
Click to view TCBPgh's profile

So, you're "outta here"?? Just using that thing between my ears...to understand exactly what you mean.  Jist trying to gits smarter :)

September 18, 2008
Click to view lordcack2005's profile

"just like your inability to know the proper use of the words their, there and they're, and then casting aspersions as to the intelligence of others."

 

Ah, you've discovered my fatal flaw. Here, I thought I had you fooled. Besides you missed a coma in your quote above. I could honestly care less.

 

I throw no stones, I was merely stating the fact that Tolerance on both sides is whats needed, not throwing stones. A thinking person can also believe. I'm not Christian but I believe in something. I understand science, I understand the facts, but I also believe there are things that we will never understand no matter how much we think about them. You know for example, why do we need there, their, and they'er.... isn't (there/their/they'er) a simpler way ;)

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile
TCB: For me, it's multi-tasking. I need to keep my mind occupied with different things or I bug out. By the way, are yins from Pittsburgh?
September 18, 2008
Click to view TCBPgh's profile

Actually, nothing was really directed to anyone aside from those who have been here hating on each other.  I was just surprised to see that a picture of a post-hurricane house would cause e-fights.

Anyway, yea...in the 'burgh.  You??

September 18, 2008
Click to view FurryBeast's profile

Not anymore, but I was born and raised there. Go Steelers!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view TCBPgh's profile

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view cjcoen's profile

those of you who do not live on a coast est west or gulf have no idea what we put up with I think that the Adams should be thatnked because with out them making sure that the house will withstand others can not continue to build my husband and I have a home that built to with stand a cat 4 but all it takes is a wind shift and it is over.  I have also built houses in Kansas in the middle of tornado alley that we try to make withstand a F4 tornado well they might work and then again they may not. Those of you that say we should not build on the coast then what aboutthose who build in earth quake known areas or volcanic or tornadoes and then what about building near a river that can flood. If this is the case then we should not live anywhere on the planet earth. I have been in all the above and through it all human sprit is what brings it back ask my home town of Greensburg Kansas that was wiped out last year with a tornado!!!!!!!!!!

September 18, 2008
Click to view soprano2's profile

I am now leaving the discussion. It was interesting!

September 18, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

Saresudog,

"And this is how the whole proverbial can of worms was opened in the first place". Correction! It was opened with this statement. "Very self centered thinking for anyone to think that they were saved because they prayed."

September 18, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

FreeMan56,

"Use that thing between your ears or lose it." (hint:the more you use it, the better it gets.")

 

Then you better start using it, because man you are full of YOURSELF.

September 18, 2008
Click to view chicagolvr's profile

WOW! this is truly amazing and the grace of GOD has a great part in this too! man-made is NOT more powerful than GOD! my prayers go out to everyone that was effected by hurricane ike.

September 18, 2008
Click to view NamelessOne's profile

I would never expect that blog about storm's aftermath would be so entertaining and educational at times.

 

Some people here are certainly smart and witty. However, I bet that as they grow older they will start questioning if arguing about religion on the Internet is putting their intellect to good use. ;)

Best of luck to all of you affected by Hurricane Ike. I hope that your life returns to normal soon.

September 18, 2008
Click to view Incredulous's profile

siraq -a lot of those trials for prayer don't take into account that people who are praying have a more positive attitude than the people not praying. Maybe the positive attitude is what leads to the positive outcome and it has nothing to do with religion or the prayer itself...just a thought.

 

Why would you assume people who pray would have a more positive attitude than someone who does not? Many who pray do so only in desperation. I would hardly consider that a positive situation.

 

This "discussion" of religion began in this thread with one person stating his/her objection to injecting religion into a conversation about the resilience of one structure. I agree wholeheartedly. Why must I endure, everywhere I turn, references to a god I do not believe in. Yet when I state my objection, I am intolerant. I have no objection to anyone practicing the religion of their choice. But I object to it becoming the subject of every single unexplainable topic. I do not wish to practice your religion with you.

 

No one in this thread mentioned religion until religion was brought into the conversation by someone who "believes". If you are not prepared to debate a topic, don't bring it up. Because you believe in god, does not mean that everyone who mentions their lack of belief is intolerant.

 

I agree that most who are religious are hypocritical. They worship tolerance and brotherly love, yet are the first to be intolerant of others religions or lack thereof. Do you truly believe your faith is the only one who your god recognizes and those who devote their faith to a different form of god are doomed to eternal hell? How many wars have been fought over religious intolerance?

 

The ignorance of the faithful never ceases to amaze me.

September 18, 2008
Click to view engteacher's profile

I can't believe this blog is still going after several hours. I hope Lillybunny sees this, I still feel the same ;)

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Very well put incredulous.  Wish that you could have been here for the duration.  Just thought that I'd come back and see what happened after I left earlier.

 

You know the biggest problem that I have with Christians is that they can't even follow what Christ supposedly taught.  They talk about tolerance, but they have none for those who do not believe what they believe.  It's been shown throughout the ages.  They want me as a regular citizen of this great nation to follow what they believe, even though it's based on emotional thought and nothing else.  Jesus was supposedly all inclusive, i.e., the prostitute, the tax collector, etc..  But Christians go to church every Sunday and somehow believe that makes them morally better than everyone else.  They also believe that gives them the right to judge other people and decide what's best for them.

 

Like I said before.  I don't have a problem with anyone's "beliefs," just don't hold me accountable to that same standard.  Don't make me abide by those "morals" that you deem necessary in your own lives.  In the bible it states not to judge, lest you be judged.  If there is a god, then let him judge me in the supposed afterlife.  He never gave you the right to this here on earth.  If I'm lost, then that's on me.  It's not your place to determine.

 

Siraq, you are a good dude.  Please keep yourself safe and make it back here to be with the rest of us.  Thanks for your commitment to this nation.  Sempre Fi!

September 19, 2008
Click to view cg2288's profile

"ignorance is strength"- george orwell 1984

September 19, 2008
Click to view Feline1999's profile

People can say "well who is stupid enough anyway to live in a hurricane zone!" but then they should also say "or in an earthquake zone, tornado alley, volcano area or flood zone etc etc.  Truth is is that all around the world major cities have been built in these zones KNOWING THE RISKS beforehand.  Growing up in Chicago, I would go to the top of the Hancock building & sway back & forth.  Actually see the skyline moving before my eyes.  It was Built to sway, withstand high winds, earthquakes, tornados & yep even plane crashes. (like the WTC towers were folks!)  How much you wanna bet that was all city & county mandatory CODES for skyscrapers & no doubt Insurance company requirements as well!

 

But Joe Blows little house down the Mag. Mile has DIFFERENT codes.  So if I "huff & puff I'll blow his house down"! But so what, its just some dudes home right?  Let's change the codes based on Greenback generating structures vs. non-profit dwellings like someones most valuable possession...their home!  And if it should happen to rain during the disaster all the better....that way us Insurance Companies..like Allstate...can say water destroyed the property, not wind etc, so we DONT GOTTA PAY YOU! Then Joe Blow now wiped out cant rebuild so the mortgage lenders like WaMu take over, build a new shoddy house, sell it to another Joe Blow & the cycle continues.

 

We can build anything to withstand almost anything...to a point.  Damage is inevitable, its Momma Nature afterall.  But the point is is that yes we can & no we won't cause of the expense, so lower the codes to keep it affordable for Joe Blows, worry only about $ generating businesses, make sure Joe's keep buying houses so we can run the businesses & if their house blows down so what....its only Joe Blow afterall ... he'll be back.

September 19, 2008
Click to view sbgad94's profile

Saresudog..."Jesus was supposedly all inclusive, i.e., the prostitute, the tax collector, etc.. But Christians go to church every Sunday and somehow believe that makes them morally better than everyone else. They also believe that gives them the right to judge other people and decide what's best for them."

Jesus did spend time with sinners (we are all sinners); but when He left them; He told them to turn away from their sins.  Yes, there are many hypocrites in church who think just going to church saves them and makes them better than other people.  I'm sorry that those are the people that you base your understanding of Christians on.  A true Christian is someone who tries to follow Christ.  We are no better than anyone else. We sin; and when we accept Christ, we are forgiven.  Not perfect; just forgiven.  When I mention God or Jesus or talk about blessings, it's not to preach.  It's who I am.  I don't witness to anyone who doesn't want to hear it.  I don't witness to start arguments; but because I care about people.  Do you really think that a Christian talks to someone about God to make them mad?  We do it because of love.  My belief is that anyone who does not accept Jesus as their Savior, will perish; and I don't want anyone to perish.  I believe that God created us all; and that He loves us all.  It hurts when snide comments are made about prayer and belief.  You see, I truly love Jesus.  You aren't hurting me; but my Savior.  I didn't become a Christian until I was 38 years old so, yes, I've said a lot of the things that some of you are saying.  I'm so sorry that I did.  I have a testimony of 38 years of believing in myself and living for myself.  I also have a lot of reasons why I believe now.  I call myself a "Crisis Christian" because I came to God when I had nowhere else to go.  I'm so glad I did.  I was worried about all the things I would have to give up if I became a Christian.  I gained so much more than I lost.  As for this blog, I can't explain why some people suffer so much more than others.  I suffer plenty myself just like everyone else.  God doesn't promise me that I won't have storms; but He does promise that He will be with me through them.

 

Anyway, my two cents worth.  And, by the way, I am terrified to post this because of grammar...lol  I did do spell check.  :)

September 19, 2008
Click to view raywill49's profile

From a builder: There are many ways to build a home to withstand hurricanes, tornados and floods. The most economical is Insulated Concrete Forms. These are concrete bunkers that reduce energy bills by 70%, eliminate outside noise on the busiest streets and add less than 10% to the cost of the home's structure. NO BRAINER! web site: specifiedproducts

September 19, 2008
Click to view Incredulous's profile

Sbgad94 - "My belief is that anyone who does not accept Jesus as their Savior, will perish; and I don't want anyone to perish."

 

This is our problem with the faithful. It is not your place to be concerned about where I go in your supposed afterlife. Your concern for me is misplaced. I believe that you simply cease to exist. I do not interject my beliefs continually to remind you I feel you are worshiping something that simply doesn't exist and wasting this life on the misguided hope of the next.

 

Please keep your concerns of my demise to yourself. While you have pity on me, I also have pity on you for simply not getting it. I just don't bring it up in every conversation.

September 19, 2008
Click to view watcher43's profile

After looking at the Hudspeth home, sitting completely untouched in a landscape of utter devastation, I wonder if there is something else going on here! Look at the roof shingles, the banisters even the planking -- nothing was damaged! They say the house was built in 2006 to withstand a CAT-5 storm -- either the contractors that built the house should be awarded the Nobel Prize in science or the witch doctor that cast the protective spell over it. It's just plain creepy

September 19, 2008
Click to view watcher43's profile

It's odd that many people have cited their faith in God as the reason for the house being protected but the Hudspeths' never mentioned this, onlt the house was built to CAT-5 specifications. Also I find it hard to believe they were the only ones in that entire region that have faith in God!

September 19, 2008
Click to view Landy3261's profile

These people probably had the means to rebuild their home to the most rigorous specs. Don't hate. On the other hand, if they choose to live in a hurricane prone area, fully knowing the risks, then that's their choice to. Why look at this as anything else but a miracle? Total devastation is all around this house, yet it still stands. True testament to God's great power. Say what you want, but it is truly His work.

September 19, 2008
Click to view electronut's profile

As an engineer, this looks pretty much like a hoax.  This house is up on stilts.  There's no way you could make those strong enough without diagonal bracing to withstand the windload surface of the upper solid part of the house.  Maybe if the stilts were solid steel and embedded 10 feet deep in concrete, which would be very expensive.  I might have believed it if the house were not on stilts, you could use steel I-beam framing.  But with even the lawn blown away, which would have taken way over 100 MPH winds or severe complete erosian, there's no way the house would have been left standing.  BTW, there is no such thing as "CAT-5 specifications".  There are definitions of a CAT-5 hurricane, but they are all different when it comes to structural forces.

September 19, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

sbgad94,

Amen, well said. You inspire me. Peace be with you.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Alright sbgad94, this is my last response.  As I stated earlier in this blog, I used to be one of you.  I know about the whole Jesus and savior thing.  There is never talking sense to people like you, but I will leave you with these jewels.

 

God supposedly mixed up all the languages at the Tower of Babel (what a fairy tale this is, but I'll go with it anyway since it's part of your belief system).  Later on he sends a savior with a message that is eventually written down in greek and hebrew text.  Then it has to be "translated" into all these other languages starting with English.  Have you ever heard of the experiment in a classroom where you tell one person a story and they tell the next and so on and so on.  When the story gets to the last person, it's not even the same as when it was first told.

 

Now this is all crazy because we're supposedly talking about a perfect omnipotent being.  This being is depending on imperfect humans to translate (ever hear the term lost in translation?) this great message and deliver the message to the masses.  Now the kicker is that it's critical that the message gets passed along correctly because the human soul hangs in the balance as to whether it goes to heaven or hell for eternity.  That's a pretty serious message to trust imperfect humans with getting it right.  Doesn't sound like a perfect plan to me.

 

Next, why does god have to be like the Wizard of Oz.  If he's all knowing and all powerful then he had to know that humans would advance to where they are today.  Today he has a better outlet to convince people of who he is and what he expects.  All those supposed miracles that were performed ages ago could be done right here, right now, for all the masses to witness and we'd all get it and believe immediately.

 

Lastly, it is said that god will judge everyone in the end for their sins.  Well that's all well and good, but there's a flaw in that judgment.  There is more sinful influence today then at any time during human history.  Humans have been subjected to more temptation as time has gone along up until the present.  You can't possibly judge a person living today the same way that you would judge a person who lived 1000 years ago and not even 100 years ago.  There is no logic here.

 

Thanks for playing.  I gotta go get some work done.  Peace out!

September 19, 2008
Click to view cre8chaos69's profile

I prefer blogs to run this way.  Its like youre actually having a discussion in person.  You dont always "stick to the subject" when you are talking in real life.  If someone says something you dont quite agree with you dont say..."hey man, lets stick to the subject".  Not to mention, most of the comments made are sarcastic and I LOVE sarcasm!

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Oh, and I missed this gym submitted by freeman yesterday, so I thought that I would post it again for those who might need to watch.  Thanks freeman.

 

Remember, you should never eat from the tree of knowledge.

 

Uh, uh, uh, why not?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyVNlvzzSFA

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

I meant gem.

September 19, 2008
Click to view oracle2world's profile

About not rebuilding.  Folks can build where they want, I just don't want to pay for their insurance when their homes get wiped out.  If a private insurance company has no interest, that should be a clue.

 

Yes there are tornadoes in Oklahoma, and folks had their homes destroyed in Katrina.

 

But most beachfront homes are expensive and often second vacation homes, not basic dwellings.  Spending $800K on a luxury home and then expecting the gov't to underwrite basic insurance for the inevitable rebuild every ten or fifteen years ... should tick off everyone.

September 19, 2008
Click to view bookiekellie's profile

I think some people need to do some research on prayer.  Prayer is not a magical thing, it is a faith thing.  Read your Bible. Just because you pray does not mean that you will always get your way.

 

As far as the judgement goes, when you sin, it is a choice YOU make.  You can't blame society or the bad influences of the world today for your own choices and actions. Stop looking for a scapegoat. If you are fully trusting in God and if He has complete control over your life then He will help you overcome worldly desires.  Not saying that you won't sin.  Nobody is perfect, except for God.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Rogue7's profile

"Thanks very much for stopping by to judge people of whom you really have no idea (you really don't) what they do in their day to day lives."

 

Hmmm....take your own advice maybe?

 

Wow.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Trimelda's profile

I click on this site and what I see are a lot of people screaming how much they don't believe in God and how it is unscientific to believe in a Deity, bla, bla, bla.

I makes me wonder if these posters truly understand the nature of science at all.

 

"Science proves there is no such thing as God."

Are you sure about that? There has never been a study that has ever been accepted by real scientists, (meaning those who work in the fields we call science) proving that there is or is not a God. Why? Because the very question as to whether there is a Deity is something that could not fit into the parameters of scientific testing.

 

First of all, you would have to define Deity in a scientific definition. What is a Deity?

 

Second of all, you need to state exactly what you are trying to prove about said Deity. Existence? How do you prove the objective existence of anything?

 

You might state: I will prove or disprove the existence of a Deity by whether this request for assistance is "answered" by said Deity. But how do you define answer? That means many things to many people. How do you come up with a definite "test" for Deity existence or non existence?

 

Until the people who are batting around the word, "science" can state what they mean by their terms of disbelief in an objective, scientific manner and then state their tests disproving the existence of God in the same way, then I am afraid I have to say their statements have as much merit as any so called believers-namely it is an OPINION and like anuses, everyone has one.

September 19, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

That's one of the awesome things about being a Christian, we don't have to prove anything. My faith is not an opinion, (maybe to you). I'm so greatful to God that I don't have to play some kind of a guessing game to know he exists. Pray for him to give you knowledge and you will see. Seek first his kingdom and his righteous and all these things will be given to you as well. Matthew 6:33 God is bigger than science.

September 19, 2008
Click to view cre8chaos69's profile

The bible does not prove or disprove the existance of God.  The interpretations could have been altered over time.  Not to mention that people were known in that day and age to use hallucinogens to reach higher levels of spirituality.  (Burning bush???). Also, why is it that most religious people find it hard to believe that "ghosts" exist yet Jesus supposedly rose from the dead and was seen. 

Oh, by the way, the house surviving the storm is not a "miracle".  Strong house + watching contractor like a hawk= one darn strong house.  If you look close enough on the after picture, to the right on what is left of the banister you CAN still see a flagpole. A bit tattered (sha do bee) but existent.

Lillybunny, freeman, lisa simpson, saresudog and soprano...thanks for providing such a wonderful blog thread to read.  The bored/board thing cracked me the f up!

September 19, 2008
Click to view hsmom's profile

It has been an eye opener to learn just how hard many hearts are toward God. Truly I do wish you all God's peace. Goodbye.

September 19, 2008
Click to view hky17's profile

I have zero pity for people who act surprised when a hurricane destroys their homes when they live at or below sea level (or maybe a few feet above).  You have to expect that something like this can and WILL happen at somepoint, if not potentially every hurricane season.  While, I do feel bad for people who have lost everything I don't have any empathy for them...it's a risk they chose to take and ultimately have to live with...

September 19, 2008
Click to view fcd's profile
fcd

For all of the nonbelievers out there, I would just like to note that 80% of America claims to be Christian and about 10% have actually read the Bible. If you want to know about our faith then take some time to do the proper research by reading the bible for yourself. Hint: the old testament is just as important as the new testament. As my wife told me when I would argue against christianity ,before I was saved, the truly ignorant argue about something they know nothing about. Oh and before I go, don't scorn compassion because it might be a christian who will go out of their way to help you or even (hypothetically) save your life.

September 19, 2008
Click to view hky17's profile

Bible = a good STORY...the earth was created in 7 days and dinosaurs don't really exist...haha.

September 19, 2008
Click to view cg2288's profile

dude a trex would totaly fucking eat jesus i dont give a fuck

September 19, 2008
Click to view banniNation's profile

Greetings Farkers, if you're sick of the lame-ass Fark mods then check out www.banniNation.com!

September 19, 2008
Click to view celh's profile

Maybe it stands as a lesson of some weird sort. Whether natural or otherwise.

It looks lonely, in the middle of devastation. I think it clearly shows the reality of building in such a bad area.

It looks out of place and way too close to the ocean..Standing alone there is no mistaking that.

Some areas should be a "build at your own risk". It must have been great to live so close to the ocean. But maybe not a good idea to go back and try it again.

Hurricanes will come again, sooner or later.. And it will all be to do over again.

I say "build at your own risk" should apply here. As a natural disaster of such magnitude is unavoidable on a regular basis.

September 19, 2008
Click to view ThinkRight's profile

It's beautiful when God answers prayer!

September 19, 2008
Click to view cre8chaos69's profile

I was raised in the church but have recently begun my search for the truth and not fairy tales.  I have read and studied the bible back and forth.  There are tons of holes and many many questions. 

Also, an agnostic or athiest might save YOUR life one day.  Just because we have different belief systems does not mean that I dont have a heart.

September 19, 2008
Click to view basher's profile

Pearls before swine...

 

If science proves anything it is that science cannot disprove the existence of God.  For anyone to claim that reality itself proves there is no God is idiotic.  You're telling me that all the information we'll ever need about the entire universe is in and thats that; there is no God.  Now that's a fantasy.  Reminds me of scientists 100 years ago who 'knew' that the atom was the smallest particle in existence.  Then someone comes along who breaks it open and all this other stuff comes flying out.  They didn't know much after all, and I'm certain the unbelieving know less.

 

Prayer is a powerful tool for the truly faithful.

 

Just because you say you don't want to hear from the 'bible thumpers' doesn't mean folks who believe in God have to hold their tongue.  And when you say that you used to be one of them, well, that simply isn't true.  You've never known God.  You were a faithless practitioner.  You never gave yourself the chance.  That is sad.  It is also sad that you cling to your ignorance with such arrogance and pride.  You don't know God, so you have nothing to say about what God has done on a personal level for anyone.

 

Put your pride aside and throw yourself into the faith.  I waited until I was 41 to do so, and now I can't believe I waited so long.  It has nothing to do with who I hang around with, which church I rarely attend, or which prayers get answered.  It begins with believing and praying, or communicating with God everyday.  If you haven't done this with a faithful heart, then you simply don't know.

September 19, 2008
Click to view celh's profile

Just bring up the subject of religion and you have a heated discussion, fights break out and people end up hurting each other..

That has always amazed me, the anger it provokes.

Religion is based on love and compassion..And what I read here is mostly sneering and attitude from believers.Scoffing and hateful remarks from non believers.

So what point are any of you really trying to make?

"Believe my way or I'll treat you like sh..."   ????

Yep, thats very kind on both sides.

September 19, 2008
Click to view hmmmmmmmmmmm's profile

It is interesting to hear people vent. It just goes to show you that we are controlled as much or more by our emotions as our empirical abilities. There is always some kind of hurt behind the anger and defensiveness whether one is a believer in God or not. Is it an injustice done to you or someone you know? I can't say I blame you; life is so unfair at times. 

 

My hat is off to those who do not have faith in God. To me it is a far bigger leap of faith to believe the intricacy and genius of the material world just happened. It takes less faith to believe in God. Either way is not easy as both have so many apparent contradictions and relentless mysteries.

 

As for who is to blame. It has never been smart to build in flood zones or disaster prone areas. Nature  surrenders to very little taming. Just like God.

September 19, 2008
Click to view chamomile47's profile

The contractor who built the house was Mike Riley 409-599-1681

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"It has been an eye opener to learn just how hard many hearts are toward God. Truly I do wish you all God's peace. Goodbye."

 

No, it's truly been an eye opener to see how many people live in a bubble.  I'm not disputing that there's not a god.  What I'm disputing is organized religion claiming that they are the know all end all, and that they supposedly speak for said entity.

 

"That's one of the awesome things about being a Christian, we don't have to prove anything. My faith is not an opinion, (maybe to you). I'm so greatful to God that I don't have to play some kind of a guessing game to know he exists. Pray for him to give you knowledge and you will see. Seek first his kingdom and his righteous and all these things will be given to you as well. Matthew 6:33 God is bigger than science."

 

This is truly classic, and further evidence of the existence of the bubble people.  Funny, you tell us to pray to him for knowledge, yet didn't he forbid Adam and Eve from eating fruit from the tree of knowledge?  And then punished all humans for those two having the curiosity of wanting to gain that knowledge?  This is a metaphor for how the church doesn't want you to know the truth or you might expose them as a fraud.  Similar to the sheep and the goats story. 

 

I'll tell you what hsmom.  Next time you need emergency medical care, try praying about it instead.  Why don't you sit around and let your faith (hope) do all the work.  Since god is bigger than science then let him heal you.  If you die than it might have been god's will, and I for one, will have a hell of lot more respect for your "faith."

 

You sound just as reliable about your belief or faith as those that believe in alien creatures.  I bet that you discount those people as lunatics.  Funny thing is that they have about as much proof that aliens exist as you do that god exists.  But we should all just take their word for it because they don't have to prove it, just as you claim that you don't.  Hell, we should take that approach with everything.  See how that all works out.

 

As I said before.  You can have all your bible thumping.  I don't really care what you do with your time and your mind.  Just don't make me abide by your way of thinking, and don't make decisions that affect me directly based upon your "beliefs."  If we let that happen then we'd still be living in the Middle Ages and the world would be flat.

September 19, 2008
Click to view drew46n2's profile

Im a builder of hurricane-proof homes, so im really getting a kick out of these posts.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

"Hint: the old testament is just as important as the new testament. As my wife told me when I would argue against christianity ,before I was saved, the truly ignorant argue about something they know nothing about."

 

What a nice little quote.  Old Testament is important eh?  In what respect?  Alot of it is mythology with a little truth thrown in.  For example:  Do you believe in the Noah's Ark story?  If you do then you are truly ignorant.  It's been proven that a totally wooden ship that size would break apart and sink in the water.  And don't even get me started about the 2 of everything fitting on that ship.  But don't let facts get in the way of your "beliefs."

September 19, 2008
Click to view Joncj5's profile

If this photo is real, I apologize in advance. Something just doesn't look right about it. I use Photoshop all day during my work and I could have created this myself. I am not saying it is not genuine, but I'd like to see other photos or a confirmation by a known reporter to know for sure. It doesn't make sense that anything could have withstood the complete devistation of everything in siight and have this house still standing.

 

I am convinced that the two photos are of the same house and that it was indeed damaged, but it is only my opinion that it is not in the same place. Again, I beg your pardon if I am wrong, but I think the photo has been manipulated. I'll be looking for side views or even video, or a story that this is a hoax. I have seen a similar photo of the background before and there was no house on it.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Whoopteedoo's profile

Haha.  As an non-dogmatic non-believer, I love it how stories turn into debates on religion.   They're a reflection on both sides.  To those who pray, good for you and I'm glad you believed it helped.  To those unbelievers, arguing is mute and laughable because of one word.. perspective.  He who does not wish to see through the eyes of another is as blind to the world as he who has no eyes.  In laymens terms, whatever floats your boat. 

 

Speaking of the house, disasters can happen anywhere, whether it be from hurricanes, earthquakes, mudslides, floooding, fires, tornadoes, thunderstorms, etc...  The trick is to build your home to withstand what nature may bring in your area.  I have a friend in New England who was complaining about recent unexpected 50mph winds doing some damage to some of his gutters and his greenhouse.  Living in tornado alley, I sit out side and drink my coffee in 50mph winds without a worry in the world.

September 19, 2008
Click to view SanguineDog's profile

Saresudog, you were critical (although correct) of other posters by refering to their comments they were leaving the forum by saying, "No it won't. You'll be back for more" or "You said that you were leaving. Rubbernecker!"   I point out after you made a similar post about leaving the forum with this,

 

""And with that, I'm really out"

Me too. And I don't mean like some people around here. I won't mention any names, but their initials are engteacher,"

 

you have also returned to the fray numerous times.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Saresudog's profile

Guilty as charged.  I guess that when it comes down to it everyone, myself included, loves a great train wreck.  I guess that I just couldn't help myself.  I was waiting on friends to come over so that we could go to happy hour.  They took longer than expected, so I had more time to kill.  Besides, I had to come back and respond to some of the comments directed my way.

September 19, 2008
Click to view Trulove's profile

Why is everyone so suspicious? This is the same attitude that isolates us and disables us to come together as a collective group and function effectively. We cannot afford to let fear, guilt, and distrust take over. This is a REAL family, living a REAL nightmare, and thanks to their own awareness and personal responsibility they can someday return to the house that is still standing. That is not just luck; and they did not respond as victims. Nor did they insist on staying in a home they worked so hard to prepare in the next event. I want to personally invite Pam and her family to visit my family in Santa Barbara County, California. My best to them and kudos for your positive actions and love for your community.

September 19, 2008
Click to view skayhd's profile

I live in southeast Texas and our area was affected by Hurricane Ike tremendously.  I live in an area that is roughly 65 miles north of Gilchrist, where this house still stands.  I personally know several families in my area whose homes were destroyed by either water, wind or tree damage.  Gilchrist, Crystal Beach and Galveston are favorite vacation spots for everyone in our area.  The majority of beach homes in the Gilchrist and Crystal Beach area were vacation rentals.  The residents of those areas were the local business owners and retirees who made it possible for us to spend our vacations on the gulf coast.  I can't believe that so many of you are spending so much time arguing about religion and how to use English correctly instead of being sympathetic to the thousands of people who have lost their lives, businesses and/or loved ones to this terrible storm.  Our area is still recovering from the storm, as it will be for a long time.  Please try to show a little bit more consideration to those whose lives have been ruined over the past week.

 

If you still don't believe the picture is real, how about visiting some of the following web sites to see what is really going on in our area.  Most of the beach homes in this particular area were much older homes than the one that survived.

 

Video of the Crystal Beach/Bolivar Peninsula area:

http://www.kfdm.com/video/index.php?bcpid=1138292619&bclid=1137896012&bctid=1797097746

 

Video of the Gilchrist home: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/18/ike.last.house.standing/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

 

Local news and pictures:

http://www.klvi.com/pages/HurricaneWatch.html?feed=296507&article=4235854

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/

http://www.kfdm.com/

http://www.khou.com/

 

Lots of before and after pictures:

http://www.jakeabby.com/cb/

September 20, 2008
Click to view skayhd's profile

If you still don't believe the picture is real, look at image #223 of 500 of the "Ike's Aftermath" photo gallery on http://news.aol.com/article/how-did-lone-home-survive-ike/180724?icid=100214839x1209531221x1200578413.  The house is in the background.

September 20, 2008
Click to view dbuckley's profile

This comment is for Pam Adams, the owner of the home.  I would like to know if your home was constructed with Autoclaved Aerated Concrete? My email is deena@deenabuckley.com  We build exclusively with this product on the SC coast and would love to have some information on the construction materials used. Will you please email me and let me know how to reach you and/or your contractor.

Thank-you so much.

September 20, 2008

If anyone needs evidence that God exists, this story surely proves it beyond doubt.  Only an act of Gog could spare this house from the destruction that took place all around it.  The owners of this home have been spared for a purpose, which will be revealed to them in due time.  My heart and prayers go out to all those affected by this event.

 

Trevor Watkinson

President

Save Your Sweat Weight Management Inc.

http://www.SaveYourSweat.com

September 20, 2008

oops.....i meant GOD.....not gog.....whoops

September 20, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Wow!!!  What passion we have here.  With the heat that is boiling from this blog, some, if not all, are surely to get burned.

 

A big congratulations to Pam and Warren Adams, the owner of the home.   As an American taxpayer, I am very glad we will not have to pay for preventable damage for your home.  Many, many thanks to the building contractor; Mike Riley 409-599-1681.   You are a rarity and a true American who offers a most valuable service and a rare commodity in the residential construction business, i.e. common sense.

 

==============================================

mbtelluride »

“OPPORTUNITY!! We need to STUDY the construction of this home from top to bottom!! . . . WHO HAS THE CONTACTS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN????”

 

To mbtelluride:  Congratulations on deciding to look at building something better. The questions is, “Will you be a window shopper or check writer?” Lot’s of people talk, but only few learn from the lessons of history.  The people in Galveston, etc. continued to build millions of dollars of substandard construction after Katrina and Rita.

 

====================================================

dkroupa »

“There is no mystery here. It's a stilt house. Look at the first floor. It had blowout panels to allow the storm surge water to pass through. The rest of the house only needed to meet the standard Texas hurricane requirements. The bulk of the damage on the other homes was from wave damage on top of the storm surge, not wind. If the water rose to the second floor, the waves would have creamed the "mystery house" too.”

 

A very good point.  So what is the cost-effective solution to those people who want to and will build in a place with such beauty?

 

====================================================

LisaSimpson »

“There's no mystery here. Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame.”

 

Very well said.  Now, how is this wasteful and deadly practice going to get changed for where people want to build with quality?

 

====================================================

FYI.  You might want to check out an interesting article written by Judy from Garland, TX.  (She use to live in CA.) Is Your Home Built of Termite Food and Firewood, or is it Built to Last? 

See:  http://www.vobb.com/insurance-safe-home.htm

 

For a great home built in MS after Katrina destroyed every home on the beach front, please see: http://www.vobb.com/CP-MS-McGrath.htm

 

If would like to see some VOBB dry stack concrete block close to Galveston, go to Lowe’s in:

Kingwood  http://stores.lowes.com/lowes/cgi/selection?mapid=NorthAmerica&lang=en&design=default&svv=true&place=kingwood%2C+tx&addr=&city=&region=&zip=&storeNum=&mapx=&mapy=&easy.x=6&easy.y=6

Baytown   

http://stores.lowes.com/lowes/cgi/selection?mapid=NorthAmerica&lang=en&design=default&svv=true&place=baytown%2C+tx&addr=&city=&region=&zip=&storeNum=&mapx=&mapy=&easy.x=17&easy.y=8

 

As per the US government, year-after year, more people die in fires in their homes than from hurricanes or tornadoes.  So if people lives are more important than buildings, why do mothers night after night put their children to sleep in a home built of termite food and firewood?    See: http://www.vobb.com/examples-inferior.htm

 

 

VOBB  =  Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 20, 2008
Click to view sbgad94's profile

hsmom: Thanks for your comment.  You hang in there and keep praying.  We can rejoice that we are being persecuted for Christ's sake.

When I posted here, I was just trying to explain a little about Christians; not religion.  The word religion seems to have such negative connotations.  You know, Pharisees, rules and such.  My belief as a Christian is that we do what we do out of love for Jesus and fellow human beings; and nobody is going to take that love and compassion away from me.  I still care about whether or not you perish.  I don't want to see anyone suffer.  Not now or in the afterlife.  As for the whole people going to Church and thinking they are better than other people; I'll quote someone I admire:  "Just going to Church does not make you a Christian.  I can sit in a garage all day; but that won't make me a car."

I hope hsmom doesn't mind my answering this question that was asked of her:  "Funny, you tell us to pray to him for knowledge, yet didn't he forbid Adam and Eve from eating fruit from the tree of knowledge?"

That was the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Not just knowledge.  God didn't want Adam and Eve to know about evil.  That was the serpent/Satan that convinced them they wanted to know about that.

And as for the interpretation of the Bible, my belief is that God was guiding those who interpreted.  I always tell anyone who wants to know about God not to base their belief on what I or anyone else says; but to study the Bible and hear what God says. 

For those who were in Ike's path; I've lived through a hurricane; and it is a terrifying thing.  I was glad to know that people were praying for me.  I prayed before hurricane Ike struck; and I pray now for everyone who is  recovering from the devastation.  It takes time; and you can only deal with one day at a time.  When the hurricane devastated this area, it was a real blessing to see neighbor helping neighbor in any way they could.  Most of us shared what we had with each other and that included our homes, food, water, etc.; and we helped one another clean up and repair damage.  There are many of us who care very much about what is happening to you.  We can show we care with our prayers, time and money.

September 20, 2008
Click to view Kelley1's profile

VOBB...I hope Pam or Warren doesn't see Mike's name connected with their house. He deserves NO credit at all. And, if there's anybody that lived out there at the time it was being built, please chime in.

September 20, 2008
Click to view bolivargal's profile

VOBB & Kelly1, I have a home on Church Street, it's not my primary home, but I always wished it had been, but it was just to far to drive to work each day, so I settled for just weekends at my beach house....First-VOBB, I cannot believe you put Mikes name here with his phone number for all the world to have so they can flood his phone with hate calls for what he did to Pam and Warren, when you posted it why didn't you say Hurray for Mike that he has to go to court over the lawsuit Pam and Warren filed against him after they FIRED HIM BECAUSE OF HIS POOR WORKMANSHIP AND FOR DRAGGING OUT THEIR JOB DUE TO HIM BEING BROKE and not even having enough money to buy the materials for his workers to even work on the completion of Pam and Warren's home...I was at my beach house every weekend, saw what Mike did and didn't do to them...Once he got their contract he would not even come out and talk to them over concerns they were having...they fired him, and with all their neighbors helping and another contractor they finally got the house to closing and got moved in...Shame on whoever you are VOBB aka..Mike obviously for trying to take any credit after all your put them through..Your just a broke 2 bit carpenter trying to pull yourself off as a Builder and I hope that all of Bolivar sees you for the person you are...We all love Pam and Warren and saw all the suffering you did to them-and let's not even mention that Warren even ended up having a heart attack and triple by pass due to you being their builder...and if your such a great BUILDER why didn't the house you built 4 streets over from Pam and Warren hold up...I don't seem to see it in any of the pics anywhere...hummmmmm????? Now-Kelley1...I feel your pain in your post for your Sister after reading VOBB's post...God Bless you girl for standing up for your sister, the day will come and we will all be right back at Pam and Warrens and eating that great BBQ he cooks..yummy, yummy...Down on Church Street!!! I myself think that all Pam and Warren's neighbors should start a BUILDER business, cause I think we did a nice job at Pam and Warrens...and guess we will all jump in and do it again..that's what beach people do!!!!

September 20, 2008
Click to view bolivargal's profile

TrevorW....what a nice comment you posted, when I talked to Pam a couple days ago I told her the same thing...I lost my house, and the land it was sitting on, we are all family on Church Street and when I called her to tell her how glad I was that hers survived, she told me she was sorry it did because the rest of ours didn't..I told her there's a reason it survived and all she said was "Maybe it's here to let the rest of you know that you still have a place to come to"..she is one amazing lady, who has been through so much, but yet still was there with a smile and a hug, and most of the time dinner cooked, when we pulled on the street every Friday...she always told us "Don't stop and eat because we are cooking"...I did not know what to do after work yesterday, for years it was leave work and head to the beach every Friday. I felt an empty loss every minute the clock got closer to quitting time.

September 20, 2008
Click to view bolivargal's profile

Oh, by the way Kelley1 I think you did a typo when you put Catagory 5 girl, I don't remember that ever being discussed anytime I was down there, although Ike was a Catagory 2, it was just one point from being a Cat. 3 and the house survived, that's all that matters. Would of been a shame to see all their hard work gone like that, totally beautiful home filled with beautiful people. My grandson is totally heartbroken because he can't understand why we aren't going to the beach this weekend.

September 20, 2008
Click to view bolivargal's profile

OK, was going to get off here, but happened to read SARESUDOG's comment....Now how silly was that comment you made? Do you really think that Pam did not pray for everyone?? Pam is not a real religious person, she does got to church when she's not out working 14 hrs a day with the company she works for. Pam is a nice lady, if she said she prayed I'm sure she was even including you, because knowing her the way I do, and we have been friends for years, she was thinking of everyone first-then herself last.

September 20, 2008
Click to view Kelley1's profile

I know bolivargal. I was mistaken. Pam's already corrected me on that. She said it was built to CODE. I guess I thought built to CODE meant it would withstand a CAT 5. Sorry...

September 21, 2008
Click to view DPTX's profile

May God have mercy on the poor souls bashing Him.  I hope you all learn to believe before it's too late.  God is great and prayer is powerful.  I've seen many of my prayers answered.  I've seen miracles.  I've felt His presence at times I needed Him.  He loves you even if you don't love or believe in Him.

 

I survived Ike with minimal damage, as did my family and friends.  I'm very grateful for this.  I wish a full recovery to all who were not so fortunate.  I would like to thank all who have helped others throughout this disaster.  Your efforts are truly appreciated.

September 21, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Wow, again!!!  As I said in my first post, “What passion we have here.  With the heat that is boiling from this blog, some, if not all, are surely to get burned.”

 

==============================================================================

chamomile47  Posted on September 19

“The contractor who built the house was M. . . R. . .409-xxx-xxxx”

 

Kelley1 Post “viewed 35,292 times”

“Pam and Warren brought the original house 5 weeks before Rita hit. It wasn't completely destroy. It had allot of damage to it. It was like you said, rickety cabin. The house was about 50 years old”

 

“VOBB...I hope Pam or Warren doesn't see Mike's name connected with their house. He deserves NO credit at all.”

 

Your information is duly noted.  FYI.  I was requested by a friend of mine from Florida to find some info about the construction of this home as it was making national news/blogs.  As such, I decided to read many of the responses.  The info I picked up was solely from this IReport.  I did not know or see a response (prior to my post) from you about the building contractor’s performance.  I got my info about the name and phone of the contractor from a post on September 19th.  My post was sent on the 20th.  I had not seen any other related response about the builder by you, Kelley2 (Pam) or  bolivargal.  As this Ireport-blog has been viewed 35,292 times as of now (Sunday afternoon), it is good to get the full information included in this blog.

 

I have read bolivargal’s post several times. And with this info, I am in a much better position to understand your post.  I do suggest you send a blog to chamomile47, if you feel it is applicable.

 

Your comment is duly noted.  “She said it was built to CODE. I guess I thought built to CODE meant it would withstand a CAT 5. Sorry...”

 

=================================================================================

Kelley2   

“Hi, This is Pam, the owner of the house...Kelley1 is my sister...the house is facing that direction due to the street running in front of the house.”

 

Kelley2 (Pam) I do fully and sincerely apologize to you and Warren if I have offended you with my post.  I had not wished in anyway to diminish/belittle, etc. the full results of Ike (the Terrible).

 

As per bolivargal “she said was "Maybe it's here to let the rest of you know that you still have a place to come to".she is one amazing lady, who has been through so much,”

 

I have been to Galveston many times; in the summer for the beach and seafood and in the winter for the Christmas festival.  Galvestonians, like all (most, if not all) TEXANS, are wonderful people who enjoy life.  I wish you and your family to ASAP enjoy those gorgeous sunrises, sunsets, friendly smiles, etc., etc.

 

However, I do fully standby my earlier comment, “As an American taxpayer, I am very glad we will not have to pay for preventable damage for your home.”

==================================================================================

 

 

bolivargal

VOBB & Kelly1, I have a home on Church Street, it's not my primary home, but I always wished it had been, but it was just to far to drive to work each day, so I settled for just weekends at my beach house....First-VOBB, I cannot believe you put Mikes name here with his phone number for all the world to have so they can flood his phone with hate calls for what he did to Pam and Warren, when you posted it why didn't you say Hurray for Mike that he has to go to court over the lawsuit Pam and Warren filed against him after they FIRED HIM BECAUSE OF HIS POOR WORKMANSHIP AND FOR DRAGGING OUT THEIR JOB DUE TO HIM BEING BROKE and not even having enough money to buy the materials for his workers to even work on the completion of Pam and Warren's home...I was at my beach house every weekend, saw what Mike did and didn't do to them...Once he got their contract he would not even come out and talk to them over concerns they were having...they fired him”

 

“Mike obviously for trying to take any credit after all your put them through..Your just a broke 2 bit carpenter trying to pull yourself off as a Builder and I hope that all of Bolivar sees you for the person you are.”

 

LATER POST

“she said was "Maybe it's here to let the rest of you know that you still have a place to come to"..she is one amazing lady, who has been through so much,” bolivargal

 

To bolivargal, your info is most appreciated.  I myself have had to fire a residential building contractor in the middle of the job.  It was a very frustrating and expensive ordeal both before and after I fired him. Especially, when all of the third party sub-contractors quit the job after I fired him.  Getting a follow-up contractor is real stab-in the back experience.  The price was almost doubled and the excuses were unlimited.  Yes, I have worked in the heat of the middle of August on my hands and knees with a hammer and chisel cleaning up concrete slop that should have cleaned up if the building contractor had been on the job.  He basically showed to collect the draw.

 

Yes, I know on a first-hand basis about “2 bit carpenter trying to pull yourself off as a Builder”.  I know some such people who could not build a doghouse, much less a quality home.  Anyway life goes on.  There is going to be a TEXAS size job to rebuild.  The “2 bit carpenter trying to pull yourself off as a Builder”s, are going to pounce on the locals and the cost of building is going to multiply.

 

==============================================================================

 

As a related item:

 

FROM:     http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-18-ikehealth_N.htm

DrLynda

“As for those who ignored the warnings, especially on Galveston island, I have no sympathy for them. If they are stupid enough to defy the mandatory evacuations and after they were told if they stayed they would DIE, they are the ONLY ones responsible for their plight. People must take responsibility for their own stupid actdions, not blame the government. The people of Galveston had PLENTY of time to evacuate, unlike the people of Bolivar Peninsula. They should have heeded the warnings. Ignoring the warnings, like the people in New Orleans, should automatically preclude anyone from receiving copius funds and aid. That may sound harsh, but if people are not forced to accept responsibility for themselves, then they will continue to suck off the public tit which means they are, basically, living off YOU because it is YOUR tax dollars being squandered on morons.”

 

AND FROM:    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-18-home-elevation_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

jpm6ret

“We still have a herd of morons living and working in New Orleans, you people make no sense over there!”

 

 

To bolivargal:   In three years from now, will the people of the world be calling the people of Galveston, etc. “morons”?   My question to you, is very simple, “what lessons have been learned?”  Are the US taxpayers (aka “stupid suckers”) going to have to pay for such clean-up/rebuilding over and over?

 

According to FEMA, we had Katrina, Rita, Georges, Wilma, Charley, Andrew, Frances with substantial losses.

 

(Hurricane Katrina (FL,LA,MS,AL) 2005 $29,318,576,948** Hurricane Rita (TX,LA) 2005 $3,749,698,351 Hurricane Ivan (LA,AL,MS,FL,NC,GA,NJ,PA,WV,NY,TN) 2004 $2,431,034,355 Hurricane Georges (AL, FL, MS, PR, VI) 1998 $2,245,157,178 Hurricane Wilma (FL) 2005 $2,110,738,364 Hurricane Charley (FL,SC) 2004 $1,885,466,628 Hurricane Andrew (FL,LA) 1992 $1,813,594,813 Hurricane Frances (FL,NC,PA,OH,NY,GA,SC) 2004 $1,773,440,505)

 

 

==============================================================================

NewThinker

“Folks, I'm happy that this house survived. However, let's remember that Ike was only a Cat II hurricane. Hurricanes' destructive forces increase exponentially from Cat I throug Cat V. Plus this house appears not to be on the beachfront which is a huge environmental factor even if the storm surge reached it. It would probably have been destroyed if it was struck by a strong Cat III (and almost for sure by a Cat IV or V hurricane)”

 

 

To NewThinker, congratulations on some good thinking.  As I did not see a response to my earlier question, maybe you could be so kind as to answer my question;

 

As per the US government, year-after year, more people die in fires in their homes than from hurricanes or tornadoes.  So if people lives are more important than buildings, why do mothers night after night put their children to sleep in a home built of termite food and firewood?    See: http://www.vobb.com/examples-inferior.htm

 

My two cents is, (except for the dead people) the pain and suffering has only started in Galveston, etc.  There are going to be years of torture, stabbing in the back, etc. for what were, to a large degree, preventable losses.  My suggestion as CPA from the great state of Texas, if you own a home/building which has a good chance of being destroyed, think of it as Enron stock that you bought at $60 per share. Oh yes, it may go up to $70 or $80, but in the end, it is only worth 80 or 90 cents per share.  Enron went from 22,000 employees in 2000 to only 8 employees in 2008.  As such, think about finding a sucker who will buy the loser you own from you.   Then, take the money as a down payment to build a new home/building with quality and safety for your family.

 

VOBB  =  Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 21, 2008
Click to view ATXYZ123's profile

Hurricane Construction- been in touch with builder: joe@ThomasDev.com

September 21, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

OOPS!  After hitting the post button, I realized that I probably need to make a clarification.  The opinion I wrote was a personal one and has a value of not more than two cents as so stated.  I did not intend to express a professional opinion. 

 

Please excuse my oversight.  Thank you and have a great day/night!  (If anyone forwards my previous post, please add this clarification.)

September 21, 2008
Click to view Kelley1's profile

VOBB...Thanks

September 22, 2008
Click to view RonVan's profile

The picture of this house standing amongst the devastation is amazing.  As much as I feel for those that have lost everything I can only think of an old Army term that has been part of my life.  The 6 P's!!

"Prior Planning Prevents P$#% Poor Performance"  The owners of this house knew what they might face and built their house accordingly.  The results are obvious!

September 22, 2008
Click to view allplanscom's profile

I actually work for the designer of this house plan, Bob Chatham of http://www.ChathamDesignGroup.com and he designed, built and lived in the original home of that particular design. His home went through several storms/hurricanes. We are in the cute coastal community of Fairhope, Alabama so this home was designed to withstand winds of 130 miles per hour. Even when water from one of the storms seemed to have damaged his home, much to the degree of this house.. he restored it with minimal difficulties. We encourage our customers, regardless of where they live to be aware of the natural disasters that can potentially happen in their area and to build accordingly. Our thoughts and prayers are with all the families affected by hurricane Ike.

September 22, 2008
Click to view Kelley1's profile

allplanscom...I'm so glad you posted here. I just read your post to Pam. She said she could not remember the name of the company, she bought the plans from. People have been asking her. They were looking for a design to built on the beach. She picked up your design book at the store, she fell in love with the house on the cover. She give me the book, because we'll be building on the lake soon.

September 23, 2008
Click to view nedtex's profile

You people with your own agendas are UNREAL!!!  This blog was created to portray the devastation to an area of the Gulf Coast that many called home.  Natural disasters occur everywhere...snowstorms in Colorado, wild fires and earthquakes in California, flooding in the Midwest.  Is it really appropriate to criticize people for the area they reside in and the unfortunate disasters that occur without provocation?  These are people's lives you're using as a forum to discuss religion, maturity, and building standards!  Get a life people and use that energy to help your fellow man that is suffering!

September 23, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good Morning!

 

Nedtex “This blog was created to portray the devastation to an area of the Gulf Coast that many called home. Natural disasters occur everywhere...snowstorms in Colorado, wild fires and earthquakes in California, flooding in the Midwest. Is it really appropriate to criticize people for the area they reside in and the unfortunate disasters that occur without provocation?  These are people's lives you're using as a forum to discuss religion, maturity, and building standards!”

To”Nedtex:  I went back and read several times the introduction.  The first line reads “”we received an amazing submission”.    As such, I did not read about limitations and what to discuss.  For my two cents, I think it is great that we have this forum to discuss about how  to live in Colorado, California, etc. and not have a person’s home destroyed because of substandard “building standards”.  Would you agree when house-after-house is destroyed year-after-year, that the “building standards” are substandard?  We think that when there are billions of dollars of damage and the building standards allow such trash construction when “unfortunate disasters that occur without provocation” year-after-year, it is time for drastic change.  As stated by LisaSimpson, "There's no mystery here. Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame."

 

The glorious sunrises and sunsets have already returned to Galveston.  In due time, the laughter from children, smiles from friendly people, the delicious smell of Texas BBQ, will return.  Hopefully, there will be lessons learned from this terrible disaster which was “without provocation”.

 

To me, this blog is a very cost effective forum of education.  Yes, there are some people that “discuss religion, maturity”, but then this is the great USA where freedom of speech is still open and welcome.  Yes, I see your point that to many people these issues may not be relevant to “The last house standing”.  I would much rather see people express their opinion here in this IReport or in other blogs than graffiti on a public wall, someone’s home or a public  bathroom which has to be cleaned up.  As such, your point is well noted.

Even Kelly1 learned something about the definition of “CODE”.  “I know bolivargal. I was mistaken. Pam's already corrected me on that. She said it was built to CODE. I guess I thought built to CODE meant it would withstand a CAT 5.

 

As I have not been able to get a single response to my questions and you seem like an intelligent person, please advise me your thoughts on:   As per the US government, year-after year, more people die in fires in their homes than from hurricanes or tornadoes. So if people lives are more important than buildings, why do mothers night after night put their children to sleep in a home built of termite food and firewood? See: http://www.vobb.com/examples-inferior.htm

 

Likewise, we have heard loud and clear from Ike, Katrina, Rita, Georges, Wilma, Charley, Andrew, Frances , etc. with substantial losses.  What lessons have been learned?  In three years from now, will the people of the world be calling the people of Galveston, etc. "morons"? My question to you, is very simple, "what lessons have been learned?" Are the US taxpayers (aka "stupid suckers") going to have to pay for such clean-up/rebuilding over and over?  Is there going more of the “fellow man that is suffering” when such “suffering” could and should be prevented?

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 23, 2008
Click to view nedtex's profile

VOBB,

 

I do not dispute the need for improved building codes in general. The fact remains, however, that I have lived in this area of Texas my entire life (40+ years), as have my parents before me, and never has this level of devastation been seen.  Yes, there was Audrey in 1957 and Carla in 1961, but this level of disaster twice in 3 years time (Rita, and now Ike), has never been experienced.  My point was in regard to previous posters who seemed to indicate that people in SE Texas stupidly rebuild in the same "danger zone" that is the Gulf Coast without regard to the potential for hurricanes.  The truth is that very few have ever had to CONSIDER rebuilding, much less having to actually do so. 

 

Also, people did stray off topic to emphasize their own agendas about religion, etc.  That did infuriate me.  I saw an interview with the owner of this home on our local news tonight (KFDM in Beaumont, TX), and she indicated the home WAS built to sustain hurricane 3-4 force winds, but realistically, nothing can withstand the tremendous storm surge from the Gulf of Mexico. They may be perceived as "lucky," but I can assure you that "luck" is not the emotion they are feeling.  I personally ripped wet, moldy sheet rock from a home in Bridge City, TX today that encountered 5ft. of storm surge.  It was an awful, heartwrenching sight.  I simply ask that no one forget the people of this area and the loss of their homes.  Not just in the physical sense, but in the intangible that you can only understand when you've lived and loved somewhere for 40, 50, even 60+ years of your life.

September 24, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good Morning!

 

Nedtex.  Your post is most appreciated.

 

“It was an awful, heartwrenching sight.”  “The truth is that very few have ever had to CONSIDER rebuilding, much less having to actually do so.”

 

Your comments are so noted.  Now considering that smart people learn from other people mistakes/experiences, are the people of AL, MS, GA, SC, NC, etc. going to have to live through a new  “Ïke” to believe that such damage is “heartwrenching””.   The people of TX had ample opportunity and three years to prepare after Katrina/Rita.  The people of Galveston, etc., after Katrina and Rita, still spent millions of dollars on new substandard construction for homes and improvements in the Galveston area.  The fact is the people of LA are still rebuilding after Katrina with termite food and firewood.  As stated by jpm6ret , "We still have a herd of morons living and working in New Orleans,”

 

My daughter was born in Houston and I have listened to numerous Houston friends talk about the electricity going off for days, etc. etc.  I also saw one interesting news report about how a builder and/or designer who stayed in Galveston to ride out the hurricane and he lost his wife/lady friend.  I am sure at 3:00AM in the morning when the surge was coming in and he and her were just trying to survive, it was more than “heartwrenching”.

I simply go back to LisaSimpson, "There's no mystery here. Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame."  I read several of her posts.  She did not state she was a rocket scientist.  She did not add P.E. to her name to state she was an engineer.  She did not add AIA to her name to state she was an architect.  To me, she is expressing simple “common sense”.

As such, with your comment, “nothing can withstand the tremendous storm surge from the Gulf of Mexico.”, and with such knowledge and the recent experience of Katrina, Rita, Georges, Wilma, Charley, Andrew, Frances, you have 100% of my sympathy as a fellow American. But, only my sympathy.

 

As stated by DrLynda, "but if people are not forced to accept responsibility for themselves, then they will continue to suck off the public tit which means they are, basically, living off YOU because it is YOUR tax dollars being squandered on morons."

 

We know that there are "2 bit carpenter trying to pull yourself off as a Builder", which add to the complexity.  Yes, Miami-Dade county in FL has adopted a "stronger" building code requirement for high velocity hurricane zone .  However, does FL still allow homes to be built with termite food and firewood?  The people who are paying for the construction, need to be fully educated as to the potential losses/damage and what does the building code really mean, As such, as previously suggested by me, “think about finding a sucker who will buy the loser you own from you. Then, take the money as a down payment to build a new home/building with quality and safety for your family.”

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 24, 2008
Click to view nedtex's profile

VOBB,

 

Ok---with regard to "sucking off the public tit," I take great offense.  Many people in my area are taxpayers AND pay homeowners insurance, which provides little relief  once the adjuster FINALLY shows up.  There are no free rides for us!!!  Paying outlandish premiums to protect our homes for years and then to have to haggle over the price of roofing shingles is a real slap in the face!!! FEMA DOES NOT come into play when you work for a living! 

 

Now-with regard to building codes-I observed a building in a picture of Surfside, TX that was elevated AND built of cinderblock.  Half of it is gone!!! 

 

I suspect if this was Miami, NYC, or other large coastal cities we would not have the same controversy regarding whether or not to "rebuild."  Small coastal communities are the heartbeat of this country.  How dare anyone suggest that our continued habitation of the area be an "ignorant" decision.  And, may I remind you all, the majority of people who live in this area work for the petrochemical industry that supplies 1/5 of the nation's oil and gas.  I suspect you wouldn't want to sacrifice that!!!  (Port Arthur, TX currently has an expansion underway that will make its Motiva refining plant the largest in the nation). 

 

We have and will always accept responsibility for our community.  That being said, those who have little knowledge of the history of this community shouldn't make blanket statements about the resident's "irresponsibility."  Those folks reside in New Orleans--not the Southeast Texas coast!!!

September 25, 2008
Click to view MissyA's profile

http://www.kfdm.com/news/says_27979___article.html/house_pam.html

A local news channel aired this the other night.

September 25, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good evening!

 

LisaSimpson,  you wrote, "There's no mystery here. Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame."

 

For the sake of clarity, where did you get such wisdom?

 

Are you a rocket scientist?

 

Are you a brain surgeon?

 

Were you born a genius?

 

Have you told this to any engineers (i.e. P.E.'s)?

 

Have you told this to any architects (i.e. AIA's)?

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 26, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good Evening!

 

Nedtex.  Your follow-up post is most appreciated.

 

For the sake of clarity, I have no intentions to step on any toes, upset or belittle anyone who is suffering from Ike the Terrible.  As noted by the blog owner, “We want our site to be a place where people discuss and debate ideas that foster stronger communities.”

 

====================================================================

 

POINT 1

“with regard to "sucking off the public tit," I take great offense. Many people in my area are taxpayers AND pay homeowners insurance, which provides little relief once the adjuster FINALLY shows up. There are no free rides for us!!! Paying outlandish premiums to protect our homes for years and then to have to haggle over the price of roofing shingles is a real slap in the face!!!”

 

One of the recent news articles was:  “Ike-battered Galveston allows residents to return home

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/2008-09-24-galveston-ike_N.htm

 

On Tuesday, Galveston Mayor Lyda Ann Thomas and other city leaders went to Washington to ask lawmakers for nearly $2.5 billion in emergency funds.”

 

First of all, if possible, I will let “DrLynda, know you have been “greatly offended” because of her/his comment about “suck off the public tit which means they are, basically, living off YOU because it is YOUR tax dollars being squandered on morons."

 

When the mayor of Galveston asks for “$2.5 billion in emergency funds” from Washington, it sure sounds like to me that they are not taking responsibility for their actions.  Based on the gross waste of US tax dollars after Katrina, the request for $2.5 billion will only be the first on many more billions of dollars paid out by US taxpayers to rebuild Galveston, etc.

 

You wrote “We have and will always accept responsibility for our community.”   Does the Mayor of Galveston accept responsibility for her community?  Or is she acting just like the mayor of New Orleans after Katrina?  DrLynda stated “tax dollars being squandered on morons."

=================================================

 

POINT 2

You wrote “Small coastal communities are the heartbeat of this country. How dare anyone suggest that our continued habitation of the area be an "ignorant" decision.” .  And you wrote, “when you've lived and loved somewhere for 40, 50, even 60+ years of your life.”

The pride you have for your community is most evident.  However, I have listened to the lady from Gautier, MS describe the refrigerator floating in the water as Katrina blew in their two year old home to pieces.  She was full of pride of her home, even though it was tow years.    My point is, Sir, that we do not think good Americans like you should experience such “heartwrenching” pain, when much of the loss is preventable, 

 

Ah, but we go back to LisaSimpson’s statement “"There's no mystery here. Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame."

 

So, is the local community of Galveston, Gilcrest,” Bridge City,” going to change their building code like  Miami-Dade County?  Are these areas going to allow “wood frame” construction?

 

However, the real BIG question I have, are all of the “Small coastal communities are the heartbeat of this country.” Of AL, MS, GA, NC, SC going to have to experience another Ike, or will they continue for the next three, five, ten years building substandard construction which will one day require another federal government bailout?

 

================================================

POINT 3

 

You wrote “pay homeowners insurance, which provides little relief once the adjuster FINALLY shows up.”  Knowing this is a fact of life, isn’t it better to avoid a disaster if it is preventable?

 

FYI.  We have personally visited Texas Insurance Commissioner Geeslin in Austin, TX.  We have also contacted Mr. Sam Nelson, Chief Engineer for the Texas department of Insurance about VOBB.  We tried to explain to Mr. Geeslin the need to match insurance premiums with insurance risk.  Homes built with low standards (especially using termite food and firewood in high risk areas) should be subject to much larger insurance premiums than those homes built based on quality.  Commissioner Geeslin was very cordial and had a very nice and friendly Texas smile.  However, we got no where with him.  We could not get him or anyone else from the TX Dept of Insurance to visit a quality VOBB home.  For the record, we have had non-government people from Austin, Dallas, Houston, TX , Atlanta, GA, Jacksonville, FL drive to Lafayette, LA just to inspect a quality VOBB home.  These were individual taxpayers who wanted a quality home for their family.  Yet, try to get a government insurance employee interested in quality construction.

 

FYI.  The VOBB home in Gautier, MS, which replaced a home destroyed by Hurricane Katrina qualified for a 65% insurance discount.  In our opinion, the government insurance management in MS is the most advanced in the US in promoting quality construction to prevent these preventable losses.  See:  http://www.vobb.com/insurance-ms.htm

======================================================

 

POINT 4

You wrote, “I observed a building in a picture of Surfside, TX that was elevated AND built of cinderblock. Half of it is gone!!!”

 

I have not seen the building in Surfside, but I probably saw hundreds of pictures of buildings built with regular concrete masonry units (commonly referred  to in the construction industry as “CMU”) that failed after Katrina and other storms in FL, etc. etc.  This is a very good example of substandard construction, considering the reality and high risk areas.  We call this type of construction “weak mortar joint with expensive labor”.  However, for whatever it worth, it is building code approved in all 50 states.  For sample of such, see:  http://www.vobb.com/Two-most-important-facts.htm

 

We have spent truck loads of cash on engineer reports, etc. and know full well the weak points of regular CMU vs. VOBB.  For a good example of an engineer report that shows that VOBB is ten times stronger from an engineering company from Houston TX,, see:   http://www.vobb.com/engineer-vobb-vs-reg-cmu.htm

 

As you seem like a very intelligent person, I suggest you take a look at some technical videos;  See:   http://www.vobb.com/videos-technical.htm  One of these is about a VOBB basement.  While wind in a hurricane with 130 to 175 mph is strong and can do a lot of damage, as noted in this blog, surge  is stronger.  But even more stronger/force, is dirt pushing against a wall day after day.   For that type of construction, we recommend pilasters to reinforce the wall.  They did the same type of quality construction in the VOBB home in Gautier, MS  to protect against the full force of the mighty Gulf during one of its fits of fury – hurricane.

=====================================================

 

POINT 5

As such, knowing what you now know today after Ike and based on LisaSimpson’s statement, are YOU going to build/rebuild on the coast with termite food and firewood?

 

As a last comment, we saw a news article (in the above usatoday link) as follows:  “Ruben Rosas, 74, one of those who had fled inland to San Antonio, joined the line on I-45 at about 3 a.m. Once he reached his first-floor apartment located on a bayou, he found that the walls and nearly all his possessions were gone.  "This is just sad, but the good thing is, I'm still around," Rosas said. "I can recuperate these things sooner or later."”  While I do not know Mr. Ruben Ross, I really feel sorry for people who are over 70 and lose everything.  We think that this is a sick Amercian joke based on substandard building codes.

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 26, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good morning,

 

 

 

To oracle2world, You wrote "About not rebuilding. Folks can build where they want, I just don't want to pay for their insurance when their homes get wiped out."

 

So noted and agreed.  Now how are like-thinking US American tax payers going to put an end to what DrLynda stated "tax dollars being squandered on morons."?

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

 

(PS.  Please excuse my mis-typed/misspelled "American"" in an earlier post.  I have used spell-check a third time to be sure this did not occur this post.)

September 26, 2008
Click to view nedtex's profile

VOBB,

 

Your points about improved codes and materials are duly noted.  If insured's can receive reimbursement for their losses in a timely manner, maybe this can be explored.  However, with Windstorm, Flood, and Homeowners adjusters squabbling about who should pay what, that is unlikely.

 

I do not know what the mayor of Galveston's intentions are.  Galveston is not my focus.  It's the smaller communities of Bolivar, Winnie, Bridge City, and Orange, TX. 

 

oh, and thought you might like to know that I'm a Ma'am, not a "sir."

September 26, 2008
Click to view Windstorm's profile

Most builders build houses to the minimum requirements of the code (as they or their engineer choose to interpret it). The minimum code requirements are all builders are required to go by. Doing just enough to pass min. code reqs. is the same as getting a D- in school!!!! That being said, the builders are not totally to blame. Anyone that buys a house based on the largest sqare footage and/or cosmetic details that they can afford are forcing builders to compete with each other by selling the biggest house with the most features the can for the lowest price per square foot. Cost have to be cut somewhere else to achieve this. The structure, which is the most important part of a house pays the price. The buyer has to decide: do you want Big with all the whistles and bells or do you want the BEST BUILT STUCTURE that you can afford? Don't believe everything you hear when some builders tell you that they have the best built houses in the area, what they may actually be telling you is that all of the houses are poorly constructed, "ours a just the best POORLY CONSTRUCTED houses in the area"!!!!!!

September 26, 2008
Click to view seadogs's profile

Hurricanes, tornadoes, drought, flooding, earthquakes, firestorms happen every where in the world.  If you don't live on the east/Gulf coast getting hit by hurricanes, then you live on the west coast getting hit by earthquakes and/or firestorms, or you live somewhere in between facing tornadoes, et al.  Disasters happen.  And when they happen, it is the human thing to do to help.  Our government sends billions of dollars in help to the rest of the world when disaster strikes, so why should anyone begrudge our government spending money to help its own citizens.  I have a much bigger complaint about the government wanting to bail out AIG to the tune of $85,000,000,000.00.  AIG created their problem.  We are at the mercy of the elements in the event of a natural disaster.  And no matter how you build, or where you build, disaster can strike and devastate your hopes and dreams.  But as long as you survive, the hopes and dreams can be revived. 

The following is a bit long, and was sent via email to me, and it should give all posters/readers pause for thought:

 

Interesting Concept!

Now here's a bail out plan that works!

 

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.  Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in "We Deserve It Dividend". 

 

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. Citizens 18+.  Our population is about 301,000,000 ± counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

 

So divide 200 million adults 18+  into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

 

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a "We Deserve It Dividend".  Of course, it would NOT be tax free.  So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

 

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. 

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.  But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.  A husband and wife has $595,000.00.  What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.  Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads!  Put away money for college - it'll be there.  Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.  Buy a new car - create jobs!  Invest in the market - capital drives growth.  Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves.

 

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+  including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

 

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

 

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

 

As for AIG - liquidate it.  Sell off its parts. 

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.  Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

 

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

 

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

 

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

 

How do you spell Economic Boom?

 

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion "We Deserve It Dividend" more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in ashington D.C.

 

And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

 

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

 

You don't want to even hear what I think about the stupid mortgage companies that loaned out billions of dollars to people who they knew had no way of paying back the loans, with both sides of the equation interested in one thing...fast money. But it didn't work, and now we're supposed to bail out those idiots too???

September 26, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Hello Windndstorm,  

 

"The structure, which is the most important part of a house pays the price. The buyer has to decide: do you want Big with all the whistles and bells or do you want the BEST BUILT STUCTURE that you can afford?"

 

A very interesting point.  So is anyone in Galveston, Bolivar, Winnie, Bridge City, Orange, TX, etc;. going to change?  Or will they just rebuild with termite food and firewood?

 

The number one technical question we hear (about a VOBB quality home) from people over and over is, "How do you hang a picture on the wall?"

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 26, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Hello nedtex,

 

 

 

Yes, Ma’am, thank you for the correction.  My mistake.

 

A lot of good Texans live in Bolivar, Winnie, Bridge City, and Orange, TX, .Likewise, on I-10 east of Houston, there is a great BBQ restaurant called “Gator Junction”.  Have you ever eaten there?

 

And since I now know you are a woman, I would like to see if I could get a response to the question I asked in my first post and so far have not gotten one single response.  As per the US government, year-after year, more people die in fires in their homes than from hurricanes or tornadoes. So if people lives are more important than buildings, why do mothers night after night put their children to sleep in a home built of termite food and firewood? See: http://www.vobb.com/examples-inferior.htm

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 28, 2008
Click to view nedtex's profile

I didn't "build" the home I'm currently living in.  So, in response to placing my child to sleep each night in a home made from wood, all I have to say to that is a young family with a working class income tries to find the best home they can for the money.  If and when I decide to build my own home, I will certainly consider a safer structure--as long as it isn't cost prohibitive.  Do I put money before safety?  Of course that isn't something I choose, it just is what it is.  That really is what lies at the heart of this, isn't it.  It's all fine and good to have "the best," but working class folks aren't always able to afford the "luxury" of this type of safety!!!

 

And yes, I have eaten at Gator Junction!  They have great BBQ!!!

September 29, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good Morning!

 

Nedtex

It is 4:00 AM in the morning.  I just read your interesting reply/post and my mouth waters for the taste of the BBQ and sauce from Gator Junction.  I am not a big onion eater, but the onions they have are the perfect combination.

 

But I have to disagree with you 100%.  You stated, “but working class folks aren't always able to afford the "luxury" of this type of safety!!!”   This is my whole point, working class people (of Galveston, Bolivar, Winnie, Bridge City, Orange, TX, Gautier, MS, Houma, LA, etc., etc.) can NOT afford these types of disasters like Ike the Terrible, Katrina, Rita, etc., etc.  The rich people who have a few million dollars in the bank can easily go to another condo, hotel and return when the sun is shinning and all the trash is picked up.  Working folks have to get back to work as they need that job at the local chemical plant, the fishing boat on the coast, etc.

 

You stated, “FEMA DOES NOT come into play when you work for a living!”  Yes, yes, this is just my point.  "Working class folks" can NOT wait on FEMA, etc.   When a storm comes in like Ike, all homes should be still be standing, not just one.  As such, your premise of buildign homes with termite food and firewood is the fallacy of the American dream.  We shoot ourselves in the foot time and time again with this substandard method.

 

I invite you to look at a home built by Tony and his wife, from New Iberia, LA.  They did the work themselves after they lost their house trailer and decided they wanted safety for their home.  It looked like to me that Tony’s wife dry-stacked a VOBB every time her husband did.  This is what I call the true American family.  They did not stand around bellyaching and waiting for FEMA to rebuild their home, but they did most of the construction work themselves.  Yes, they did live in a FEMA trailer while they were working to rebuild their home.  After Hurricane Gustav and Ike came to LA recently, Tony’s comment was, “Not a block out of place.”

Pictures of a “working class folks”:

Husband and wife working together:

http://www.vobb.com/construction-photos/LA-Abshire/Abshire-1001.jpg

http://www.vobb.com/construction-photos/LA-Abshire/Abshire-1093.jpg

VOBB home in front of a FEMA trailer :

http://www.vobb.com/construction-photos/LA-Abshire/Abshire-1017.jpg

Tony’s wife, nailing the hurricane straps:

http://www.vobb.com/construction-photos/LA-Abshire/Abshire-1097.jpg

Grandmother and grandchildren in front of a VOBB safe home:

http://www.vobb.com/construction-photos/LA-Abshire/Abshire-1119.jpg

Link to full site: http://www.vobb.com/CP-LA-Abshire.htm

 

From your earlier post, which I inferred was not a happy one, you wrote, “My point was in regard to previous posters who seemed to indicate that people in SE Texas stupidly rebuild in the same "danger zone" that is the Gulf Coast without regard to the potential for hurricanes.”  What was in the past, is in the past.  Now it is September, 2008, what are the “working class folks” of Bolivar, Winnie, Bridge City, Orange, TX, going to do to prevent future “heartwrenching” losses?

 

Again going back to LisaSimpson,  "There's no mystery here. Homes built along the coast should not be wood frame."

 

Yes, it is our opinion that the “working class folks” (who live in substandard construction) are the peole going to be hurt the most and who can least afford such losses after such disasters.

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 29, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

Good Morning!

 

 

Nedtex

 

I  received yesterday an interesting email from an engineer (who is definitely a “working class folks”) who lives in a VOBB safe home.   All exterior and interior walls were built with six-inch wide VOBB concrete blocks for safety.

 

Pictures of Steve’s wife on the job while the home was being built:

(A “working folk” on the job at 7:00 AM in the morning day after day.)

http://www.vobb.com/construction-photos/LA-Doerr/Doerr-Feb%204.jpg

 

Pictures of the kitchen in the VOBB home:  Yes, this kitchen is for “working class folks” who want a safe home.) 

http://www.vobb.com/builders-journal/Doerr-kitchen.jpg

 

Pictures of the “working folks” after the home was completed:

http://www.vobb.com/builders-journal/Doerr-living.jpg

 

 

HURRICANES AND OTHER REASONS FOR A STRONG HOUSE

STEVE DOERR, P.E.

September 2008

 

Looking back after Hurricane Ike brings back many memories and mixed emotions to mind. In the week before the hurricane we were watching the Weather Channel for general information purposes. Soon most of the forecasted tracks were headed right for Louisiana. In the days right before landfall the projected path was headed directly at my house. If you have never been in this situation, believe me a storm as big as the Gulf of Mexico headed right at you, gets all your attention. All the weather stations and meteorologist are scanned multiple times a day. Soon we knew who had the best forecasts, and what channel, and what times our favorite meteorologist updated their forecasts. Being a transplant from Dallas, when I first moved to the Gulf Coast Area, I was mildly mused by all the preoccupation the locals had when it came to hurricanes coming into the gulf. Today, after living thru hurricanes Rita, Katrina and now Ike, you might say, I’m now very attuned to hurricanes and the precursor “disturbances” as they come off the continent of Africa and begin their westerly trek.

 

In 1992, after a vacation in Europe, I made the decision that “my dream house” was going to built with masonry products not wood, as is the practice here in the U.S. The two things that I came away with from my European vacation were: all the vast history, and the age of the houses. All the homes were one, two, three hundred years old; some even as much as six hundred years old.  They all had one thing in common, they were all built with rock, stone, block, brick and masonry; none were made of wood.

 

Here in the U.S., I have worked on framing crews, and am very familiar with typical house construction techniques, shortcuts and customary workmanship. Just because you buy an expensive house, does not mean you have a well built house. In fact, wood vs. masonry construction is not a fair comparison. When you a list of all the factors to judge or grade wood in comparison to masonry construction, there is only one factor of wood construction that surpasses masonry; which of course is the cost of initial construction. In other words, the best constructed wood house is weak and much more vulnerable to the issues of time, as compared to masonry construction.

 

My decision years ago to build with masonry turned out to be good one. All my walls, including the interior wall are made with dry stacked block, with the one or two of each block’s cells filled with concrete and a rebar center. Steel rebar comes out of the slab and runs vertically up thru the walls to the roof line. The top sill plate is secured to the top of the walls with J-bolts, just as the bottom sill plate is attached to the slab for wood construction. The ceiling joists, rafters and roof are tied to the block walls with hurricane clips. The result is a concrete block bomb shelter of a house.

 

I began this diatribe with discussions about hurricanes, but I’ll end with something much smaller –termites. As we grow and mature, our concerns evolve. Years ago I thought building with No. 2 pine was normal, and the way houses are to be built. Today I use pine as a fire starter to start my oak logs for my fireplace. Someday building with pine wood will be against building code because of its flammability. The odds of your house catching fire are relatively small, but the odds are 100% your wood house will be attacked by termites. With those odds, and the fact they are trying to eat your house 24/7, how can wood construction be justified. Over the years I’ve heard a lot of statistics on fires and termites. The only one that has stayed with me is: the total weight of all the termites in the world exceeds the total weight of all humans in world. This means there is a tremendous requirement of wood cellulose to feed all the termites in the world. Why would you build something that is the biggest investment of your life out of a food source for an almost unstoppable insect with huge underground nests?

======================================================

 

I hope you have a great day.

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

September 29, 2008
Click to view nedtex's profile

Your points are duly noted about the materials you use.  And, you're right, future costs are greater with a wood frame home.  As a newlywed, however, I was not in a position to "build" the best, safest, smartest home.  Like I said, when I get in a position to build, I will certainly take all of this into consideration.  And-my husband and I work hard each and every day and would NEVER ask for assistance for the govt. unless it was warranted to get back on our feet.  Our adjuster came out yesterday.  Incidentallywe were denied lodging expenses,even though loss of use is in our policy.  So--we're eating that expense, but had no other choice.  And, the people who lost their homes in Bridge City, Sabine Pass, etc. are working hard to rebuild their's as well.  Even with the lack of involvement from FEMA.

September 30, 2008
Click to view VOBB's profile

nedtex

 

Good morning!

 

Congratulations on being a “newlywed”.  I assume that you are young and not in your seventies.  In our opinion, the older generation from Bridge City, Sabine Pass, etc. which are retired and on a fixed income or about to be retired who are “working class folks”, will be financially hammered for the next several years.  Their pain will be more than “heart wrenching”. While young people can rebound/rebuild, the older generation will have it much harder.

 

Many people looked at Hurricane Katrina and thought a lot of the damage was self inflicted and due to the people living in LA.  With Hurricane Ike, it is now clear to all, such devastating hurricanes will be part of our lives for the years to come and they can hit any coastal area.

 

Some people will learn and change their construction methods, and some will not.

 

Best wishes,

 

VOBB = Building better homes for our families, friends and neighbors

www.VOBB.com

October 8, 2008
Click to view NCat5Homes's profile

If this house could with-stand IKE.......then our

"Pretty-Durable" Hurricane Proof Homes can with-stand a CAT-5....And all the surge it will deliver..

 

Visit us on Topsail Island, NC...336-878-0000.

 

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October 10, 2008
Click to view Sonny89's profile

*****

 

.....

*Palin, 44, lists in a March financial disclosure form an annual income of $125,000 as governor of Alaska. Her husband, Todd, earned $47,000 as an oil production supervisor for BP Alaska in 2007 and $46,000 as commercial fisherman. They also list no credit card debt.

 

McCain's has assets of between $34 million and $49 million and liabilities of between $4.3 million and $5.8 million, according CFRP.

 

Those liabilities include American Express platinum and Chase Bank credit cards held by Cindy McCain and some of the McCain children.

 

The McCains' assets include real estate holdings in Sedona, Phoenix and elsewhere, investment funds, Anheuser Busch Companies Inc. (NYSE: BUD ) stock, ownership stakes in the Hensley beer distribution company and Cindy McCain's inheritance from a family trust. Cindy McCain, 54, and the McCain children are also partners in a number of limited liability partnerships and corporations that own real estate in Arizona and California . The McCains file separate tax forms but U.S. Senate financial disclosure protocols combine spousal wealth. Hensley is one of the largest Anheuser Busch distributors in the country. ******888888888888

 

******

 

''All Arizonans should be proud and supportive of this remarkable woman,'' he said.

 

I don't want to be rude, but: Why?

 

Not, I think, because she's a drug addict and an admitted thief.

 

McCain revealed this week that she was addicted to pain pills for two years. She also said she stole drugs from an organization she created to provide emergency medical services around the world.

 

McCain said she started taking pills - eventually up to 15 or 20 a day - in 1989 after surgery left her in pain. She was also bearing the stress of the harsh publicity over the McCains' link to convicted financier Charles Keating Jr.

 

She said she's remained drug-free since 1992, with one brief lapse.

 

Hers is a sad tale, but hardly distinctive; addiction and thievery are pretty common these days.

 

In fact, about one of every four inmates in Arizona 's bloated, fantastically expensive prison system is locked up on drug charges. That, by the way, is thanks to mindlessly punitive anti-drug policies supported by officials like, well, like Sen. McCain and Gov. Symington.

 

But don't worry, Cindy McCain won't go to prison. Prison is for bad people, not for those with ''health problems.''

 

So. Maybe we're supposed to be proud of McCain simply for admitting her misdeeds.

 

Maybe. Except that her addiction apparently was something a lot of people knew about and that was likely to become broad public knowledge soon anyway.

 

The federal Drug Enforcement Administration had been investigating, and a former employee of McCain's medical team had filed a lawsuit against her over the issue.

 

McCain herself reportedly said that her motive in going public was to beat the rumor mill.

 

So it can't be that either. Should we be proud at the bold way McCain went public?

 

Don't think so. Guided by an entourage of advisers, McCain cleverly pre-empted bad publicity by breaking the news through a selected handful of media outlets.

 

She did this only after completing private treatment, and only after reaching an agreement with the U.S. Attorney's Office that ensured she would not be prosecuted if she entered a diversion program.

 

So why are we supposed to be proud of Cindy McCain?

 

Answer: We're not.

 

Sympathetic, supportive, tolerant - sure. I don't doubt McCain's physical and mental pain, the power of her addiction, the remorse she feels.

 

But proud? Sorry.

 

That suggestion, I'm afraid, is the product of ''spin,'' of a careful campaign to deflect public attention away from the awkward facts of addiction and theft, and onto the appealing made-for-TV drama of confession.

 

A campaign, in other words, to limit the political damage.

 

It is, once again, the ritualized praising of a celebrity criminal - based upon the murky idea that members of the elite ''suffer'' enough merely by admitting guilt.

 

To which I say: No sale.

 

Not that I want Cindy McCain to go to jail. I'm not even sure she should be punished; if we imprisoned all the secret addicts among Arizona 's privileged classes, we'd need more prisons than even Sam Lewis could dream of.

 

I just wonder why we should be praising her while siccing the cops and the media and the child-welfare workers on all the poor Jane Does who turn to crack to cope with their stresses - stresses perhaps worse even than bad press.

 

I wonder why I couldn't hear our leaders' calls for sympathy and tolerance amid their shouts for heavier weapons and harsher attacks in the War on Drugs.

 

I wonder about the thousands of noncelebrity wretches struggling alone against alcohol or heroin or whichever ''health problem'' plagues them, ignored if not punished by society.

 

I wish Cindy McCain well, but I'll save my cheers for them.

 

MCCAIN'S WIFE LIKELY WON'T BE PROSECUTED

 

STOLE DRUGS FROM CHARITY

 

Published on Tuesday, August 23, 1994

 

© 1994 The Arizona Republic

October 15, 2008
Click to view floridagirl2's profile

Unveiled: Democrats’ Racist Past

By Frances Rice

 

 

Democrats who say they don’t care about civil rights history do so because they want to hide the Democratic Party’s racist past.  Hypocritically, these same Democrats are quick to falsely accuse Republicans of being racist, while pontificating about why black Americans vote overwhelmingly for the Democratic Party—a party whose failed socialist policies have turned black communities into economic and social wastelands.

 

 

Surveys show that black Americans think conservative, but vote liberal because they have been barraged for over 40 years with falsehoods about the Republican Party by the Democrats who have hijacked the civil rights record of the Republican Party and taken blacks down the path of Socialism.

 

 

The time is long overdue for the curtain of deceit to be lifted and the ugly truth told about the Democratic Party’s horrendous history of racism and anti-black socialist policies that have caused so much harm to black Americans.

 

 

The Democratic Party’s Failed Socialism

 

 

The deplorable condition in black neighborhoods that have been run by Democrats for the past 40 years is well documented by black Democrat Juan Williams in his book entitled Enough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Movements, and Culture of Failure That Are Undermining Black America.  Democrats have the audacity to blame Republicans for the crisis in black neighborhoods created by the Democrats and the temerity to claim that it is Republicans who have done nothing for blacks.

 

 

In fact, Republicans have done a great deal to help black Americans, including appointing more blacks to high-level positions than at any time in our nation’s history.  Record money has been spent on education, job training and health care, as well as assistance with becoming home and small business owners.  Since the 1960’s, over $7 trillion has been spent on poverty programs. The Washington Post reported that as of 2006, the federal government had in place over 80 poverty-related programs costing $500 billion annually.

 

 

Here in Florida, Governor Charlie Crist has been a leader in the civil rights movement.  He achieved passage of the Dr. Marvin Davies Florida Civil Rights Act to stop discrimination.  He accomplished the restoration of civil rights for ex-offenders.  He also signed a budget that provides $24.4 billion for education that prepares graduates for the high-tech, high-wage jobs of the future.

 

 

Money is not the issue.  The socialist policies of the Democratic Party are at the root of the pathos in black communities. To their eternal shame, Democrats fight every effort of Republicans to help blacks get out of poverty.  Democrats oppose school choice opportunity scholarships that would help black parents get their children out of failing schools.  Democrats oppose the faith-based initiative that would help black ministers provide social services to the poor.  Democrats oppose reform of Social Security even though blacks on average lose $10,000 in the system because blacks on average have a five-year shorter life expectancy.

 

 

Despite these policies that run counter to the best interest of black people, black Americans keep voting for Democrats because every election cycle Democrats preach hatred against Republicans and get blacks to cast a protest vote against Republicans and not a vote for Democrats.  Deliberately, Democrats keep black poor, angry and voting for Democrats.  Any black person who becomes self-reliant and prosperous is denigrated as a “sellout.”  With this reprehensible strategy, Democrats have built their power base on the backs of poor blacks.  Democrat Demagogues get away with this tactic because Democrats have hidden their racist past and sold Socialism to blacks, a system that sounds good but has proven to be devastating to black communities.

 

 

Knowledge is power.  In addition to exposing the failed Socialism of the Democrats, a key step to helping to free blacks from the Democratic Party’s economic plantation is to shed the light of truth on the racist past of the Democratic Party.

 

 

The Democratic Party’s Racist Past

 

 

As author Michael Scheurer succinctly stated, the Democrat Party is the party of the four S's: Slavery, Secession, Segregation and now Socialism. 

 

 

Facts about racism in the Democratic Party can be found in books such as A Short History of Reconstruction by Dr. Eric Foner and Wrong on Race: The Democratic Party's Buried Past by Bruce Bartlett.  Two other books are Unfounded Loyalty and Unveiling the Whole Truth by Rev. Wayne Perryman.  Rev. Perryman wrote his books after conducting five years of research.  He then sued the Democratic Party for that party’s 200-year history of racism.  Under oath in court, the Democrats admitted their racist past, but refused to apologize because they know that they can take the black vote for granted.

 

 

History shows that Democrats fought to expand slavery while Republicans fought to end it.  From its founding in 1854 as the anti-slavery party until today, the Republican Party has championed freedom and civil rights for blacks.  Republicans fought to free blacks from slavery and amended the Constitution to grant blacks freedom (13th Amendment), citizenship (14th Amendment) and the right to vote (15th Amendment).  Republicans also passed the civil rights laws of the 1860's, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 that was designed to establish a new government system in the Democrat-controlled South, one that was fair to blacks.

 

 

It was Democrats who started the Ku Klux Klan that became the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party to lynch and terrorize Republicans-black and white.  Democrats passed those discriminatory Black Codes and Jim Crow laws and fought every piece of civil rights legislation from the 1860’s to the 1960’s.  Shamefully, Democrats fought against anti-lynching laws, and when the Democrats regained control of Congress in 1892, they passed the Repeal Act of 1894 that overturned civil right laws enacted by Republicans.  Republicans founded the HCBU’s and started the NAACP to counter the racist practices of the Democrats.  It took Republicans six decades to finally enact civil rights laws in the 1950’s and 1960’s, over the objection of Democrats.

 

 

It defies logic for Democrats today to claim that the racist Democrats suddenly joined the Republican Party after Republicans—including Republican Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.—finally won the civil rights battle against the racist Democrats.  In fact, the racist Democrats declared that they would rather vote for a “yellow dog” than vote for a Republican, because the Republican Party was known as the party for blacks.

 

 

The Modern Civil Rights Era

 

 

Undeniably, during the civil rights era of the 1960's, it was the Democrats who Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and the other protestors were fighting.  Democrat Public Safety Commissioner Eugene "Bull" Connor in Birmingham let loose vicious dogs and turned skin-burning fire hoses on black civil rights demonstrators.  Democrat Georgia Governor Lester Maddox famously brandished ax handles to prevent blacks from patronizing his restaurant.  Democrat Alabama Governor George Wallace stood in front of the Alabama schoolhouse in 1963 and thundered, "Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."  In 1954, Democrat Arkansas Governor Orville Faubus tried to prevent desegregation of a Little Rock public school.

 

 

Historical records show that it was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower who established the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, enforced the desegregation of the military, sent troops to Arkansas to desegregate the schools, and appointed Chief Justice Earl Warren to the U.S. Supreme Court which resulted in the 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education decision ending school segregation.  Eisenhower also supported the civil rights laws of 1957 and 1960.

 

 

Little known by many today is the fact that it was Republican Senator Everett Dirksen from Illinois, not Democrat President Lyndon Johnson, who pushed through the civil rights laws of the 1960’s.  In fact, Dirksen was key to the passage of civil rights legislation in 1957, 1960, 1964, 1965 and 1968.  Dirksen wrote the language for the 1965 Voting Rights Act.  Dirksen also crafted the language for the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which prohibited discrimination in housing.

 

 

Omitted from discussions today are significant facts about the struggle to pass the landmark 1964 Civil Rights Act.  The law guaranteed equal access to public facilities and banned racial discrimination by any entity receiving federal government financing.  The law was an update of Republican Charles Sumner's 1875 Civil Rights Act which had been stuck down by the Democrat-controlled US Supreme Court in 1883.

 

The chief opponents of the 1964 Civil Rights Act were Democrat Senators Sam Ervin, Albert Gore, Sr. and Robert Byrd.  Senator Byrd, a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, filibustered against the bill for 14 straight hours before the final vote.  Former presidential candidate Richard Nixon lobbied hard for the passage of the bill.  When the bill finally came up for a vote, the House of Representatives passed the bill by 289 to 124.  80% of Republicans in the House of Representatives voted yes, and only 63% of Democrats voted yes.  The Senate vote was 73 to 27, with 21 Democrats in the Senate voting no, and only 6 Republicans voting no.

 

Equally important was the 1965 Voting Rights Act that authorized the federal government to abolish literacy tests and other means used to prevent blacks from exercising their constitutional right to vote that was granted by the 15th Amendment to the Constitution. With images of violence against civil rights protestors led by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. shaping the national debate, Democrats in Congress finally decided not to filibuster the Voting Rights Act of 1965.  When the bill came up for a vote, both houses of Congress passed the bill.  In the House of Representatives, 85% of Republicans and 80% of Democrats voted for the bill.  In the Senate, 17 Democrats voted no, and only one Republican voted no.

 

Notably, in his 4,500-word State of the Union Address delivered on January 4, 1965, Johnson mentioned scores of topics for federal action, but only thirty five words were devoted to civil rights.  He did not mention one word about voting rights. Information about Johnson’s anemic civil rights policy positions can be found in the “Public Papers of the President, Lyndon B. Johnson,” 1965, vol. 1, p.1-9.

 

 

The statement by President Johnson about losing the South after passage of the 1964 civil rights law was not made out of a concern that racist Democrats would suddenly join the Republican Party that was fighting for the civil rights of blacks.  Instead, it was an expression of fear that the racist Democrats would again form a third party, such as the short-lived States Rights Democratic Party.  In fact, Alabama’s Democrat Governor George C. Wallace in 1968 started the American Independent Party that attracted other racist candidates, including Democrat Atlanta Mayor (later Governor of Georgia) Lester Maddox.

 

 

Democrat President John F. Kennedy is lauded as a civil rights advocate.  In reality, Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil rights Act while he was a senator, as did Democrat Senator Al Gore, Sr.  After he became president, John F. Kennedy opposed the 1963 March on Washington by Dr. King that was organized by A. Phillip Randolph who was a black Republican.  President Kennedy, through his brother Attorney General Robert Kennedy, had Dr. King wiretapped and investigated by the FBI on suspicion of being a Communist in order to undermine Dr. King.

 

 

The relentless disparagement of Dr. King by Democrats led to his being physically assaulted and ultimately to his tragic death.  In March of 1968, while referring to Dr. King's leaving Memphis, Tennessee after riots broke out where a teenager was killed, Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, a former member of the Ku Klux Klan, called Dr. King a "trouble-maker" who starts trouble, but runs like a coward after trouble is ignited. A few weeks later, Dr. King returned to Memphis and was assassinated on April 4, 1968.

 

Exposing the Democrats’ Litany of False Assertions about Republicans – From Barry Goldwater to Hurricane Katrina

 

 

Democrats today denounce Republican Senator Barry Goldwater as anti-black.  However a review of Senator Barry Goldwater’s record shows that he was a Libertarian, not a racist.  Goldwater was a member of the Arizona NAACP and was involved in desegregating the Arizona National Guard.  He supported the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and the Civil Rights Act of 1960, as well as the constitutional amendment banning the poll tax.  His opposition to the more comprehensive Civil Rights Act of 1964 was based on his libertarian views about government.  Goldwater believed that the 1964 Act, as written, unconstitutionally extended the federal government's commerce power to private citizens, furthering the government’s efforts to "legislate morality" and restrict the rights of employers.

 

 

Contrary to the false assertions by Democrats today, the racist "Dixiecrats" did not all migrate to the Republican Party.  With the party slogan: "Segregation Forever!," the Dixiecrats, who were Democrats, formed the States Rights Democratic Party for the presidential election of 1948.  The Dixiecrats remained Democrats for all local elections and all subsequent national elections.

 

 

Today, some of those Dixiecrats continue their political careers as Democrats, including former Democrat Senator Ernest Hollings who put up the Confederate flag over the state capitol when he was the governor of South Carolina.

 

 

Another former "Dixiecrat" is Democrat Senator Robert Byrd who is well known for having been a "Keagle" in the Ku Klux Klan. There was no public outcry when Democrat Senator Christopher Dodd praised Senator Byrd as someone who would have been "a great senator for any moment," including the Civil War.  Democrats denounced Senator Trent Lott for his remarks about Senator Strom Thurmond.  However, Senator Thurmond was never in the Ku Klux Klan and, after he became a Republican, defended blacks against lynching and the discriminatory poll taxes imposed on blacks by Democrats. If Senator Byrd and Senator Thurmond were alive during the Civil War, and Byrd had his way, Thurmond would have been lynched.

 

 

In the arsenal of the Democrats is a condemnation of Republican President Richard Nixon for his so-called “Southern Strategy.”  These same Democrats expressed no concern when the racially segregated South voted solidly for Democrats; yet unfairly deride Republicans because of the thirty-year odyssey of the South switching to the Republican Party that began in the 1970's. Nixon's "Southern Strategy was an effort on his part to get fair-minded people in the South to stop voting for Democrats who did not share their values and were discriminating against blacks.  Georgia did not switch until 2004, and some Southern states, including Louisiana, was still controlled by Democrats until the election of Republican Bobby Jindal in 2007.

 

 

As part of their efforts to keep blacks toeing the Democratic Party line, Democrats falsely accuse Republicans of “disenfranchising“ blacks, citing the 2000 election, even though second recounts of the votes in Florida by the Miami Herald and a consortium of major news organizations confirmed that President George W. Bush won the election.  Also, investigations by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission and the U.S. Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division found that no blacks were denied the right to vote.  If even one black person had been denied the right to vote, that person’s name would have been blasted on the front page of every newspaper in the nation.  As for the “felon purge list,” the Miami Herald found that whites were twice as likely to be incorrectly placed on the list as blacks.

 

 

An example of hypocrisy is how the Democrats use the name “Willie Horton” to castigate Republicans.  Democrats do not mention that it was former Vice President Al Gore who first brought up Willie Horton’s name against Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis during the 1988 primary election because, after Dukakis released convicted murderer Willie Horton from prison on a weekend furlough, Horton raped a woman and stabbed her husband.

 

 

In the general election, former President George H. W. Bush followed the example of Al Gore and used the name of Willie Horton against Dukakis who was the Democratic Party’s presidential nominee.  Today, Democrats condemn George H. W. Bush about Willie Horton, but hypocritically give Al Gore a pass.

 

 

To their eternal infamy, Democrats used the tragedy caused by Hurricane Katrina for their own partisan political gain.  While criticizing President Bush, Democrats turned a blind eye to the failures of the Democrats running the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana.  The black Democrat officials in New Orleans did not execute the emergency evacuation plan and allowed over 1,000 school buses and city transit buses to stay in parking lots and become ruined by the flood.

 

 

Further, the Posse Comitatus Act passed by Congress in 1878 prevents a president from sending federal troops to a state without the governor’s consent. The Democrat governor of Louisiana, a white woman, refused to cooperate with President Bush when the president asked for her consent to begin a mandatory evacuation four days before the storm.  The Democrats in the Louisiana homeland security office also refused to let the Red Cross bring truckloads of food, water and supplies to the Superdome.  Since 1980, Louisiana emergency personnel knew that the levees in New Orleans would not withstand a category 3 or 4 hurricane.  Yet, the Democrats in Congress filibustered President Bush’s energy bill which was introduced in 2001 and contained $540 million for repairing the levees in New Orleans.

 

 

Today’s Challenge

 

 

The challenge for Republicans is to conduct a broad-based educational campaign to overcome the misinformation about the Republican Party put out by Democrats and echoed in the media.

 

 

Until blacks stop voting overwhelmingly for Democrats and start leveraging their votes, as other groups do, there will be no changes in black communities run by Democrats.  Black Americans need to stop having their vote taken for granted, seize control over their own destiny and hold politicians accountable for the content of their policies, not the label of their party.

 

 

Frances Rice is a lawyer, retired Army Lieutenant Colonel and Chairman of the National Black Republican Association.  She may be contacted at: www.NBRA.info

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