Tuesday, August 25, 2009
iPhones and Ramadan

The month-long Islamic observance of Ramadan began on August 21 this year, inspiring one iReporter and iPhone enthusiast to explore how technology and religion collide.

"I was in Morocco for a couple of weeks and people were talking about Ramadan (taking place) in summertime,” Antonio Lopez Herreros explained. Before long, he found an iPhone application called the iQuran, which allows users to read the Quran.

Herreros introduced the app to two of his friends in Morocco and captured them sharing their joy about the Ramadan season with each other using their iPhones in a short film he calls “Ramadan is Coming (Where is my iPhone?).”

“The inspiration for ‘Ramadan is Coming’ was to join the joy of this religious month with the technology with maximum respect,” explained Herreros. “When you are happy, you want to share with your friends and family all the special moments. In this film they share special moments with the iPhone in their daily lives.”

This isn’t the first time that the iPhone has appeared in Herreros’ iReports. In July of last year, he excitedly covered the launch of the iPhone in his hometown of Madrid, Spain. He then introduced the smart phone to his grandmother and her best friend and created a short film based on their love for the device and posted it on iReport.com. The two are completely in awe as they discuss the latest iPhone applications.

Herreros composes original music for his films and they are all shot, of course, on his iPhone.

August 25, 2009
Click to view tnoutside's profile

EVERYTHING free, good, and reasonable collides with Islam. I am NOT a religious person. But I know pure evil when I see it and it is Islam.

August 25, 2009
Click to view mwoodj's profile

tnoutside, Did you even bother to read the report? Apparently you only have time to insult peoples religions but you unknowingly made yourself look like an idiot. The report is about how the gentleman uses his iPhone and its apps to increase his knowledge about his religion (through the ability to read the Qur'an on his phone) and share his religious-based festivities through the ability to record and post video online. The article has nothing to do with Islamic opposition to technology.


I am an atheist but I respect the beliefs of other people. I don't have to tear people down to be an atheist and I am not out to convert anybody. But I do know a good bit about many religions and one thing I know is that Muslims have contributed greatly to mathematics, science, and technology throughout history. Islamic leaders in Arab countries and around the world express the need for Muslims to embrace science and technology and help see to their progress. That is one reason why they so strongly support higher education.


tnoutside, don't be ignorant. Learn something about Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. While you may not be a religious person religion is all around you and you should have some knowledge of it as it shapes our world. I choose to be an atheist and the best way to defend my position as well as understand people is to know a bit about the religions of the world. Your statement makes people without religion look bad.

August 25, 2009
Click to view Acha's profile

tnoutside your ignorance is offensive. You have no clue what Islam is about yet you post insulting comments. If you can't say anything good or appropriate keep quiet.

August 25, 2009
Click to view wunderk's profile

I find it a bit ironic that someone who self admittedly is not religious, feels he/she can judge something to be "pure evil".  The only thing evil my friend is your stupidity.

August 25, 2009
Click to view saim's profile

I'm pleased that everyone denounced tnoutside's comment.


Coming back to the iphone, i see a lot of muslim youth using the iquran on their iphones in the mosques. I used it once and was so impressed by it that I decided I'll getting an iphone for my wife and i.

August 25, 2009
Click to view adtv's profile

Tech, religion collide over iPhone? Whats the catch?

As for the great recognizer of 'pure evil' a fool like this should be forced to do critical thinking exercises for the sake of humanity.

August 25, 2009
Click to view educatedmnd's profile

It is sad that we live in the most advanced and racially diverse nation in the world, yet we still have individuals who characterize others as "evil".  I just hope your conclusion is based on reading the Quran, reading the life of Muhammad(pbuh) and talking to scholars of Islam and not from the news media.  The last time I checked, they aren't in the business of education in religious studies.

We have to build tolerance and understanding amongst all people of all faiths and all walks of life.  I am in no position to judge others and neither are others in the position to judge me.

As far as the iPhone is concerned...I love it...I paid for my Quran application and it gives me Arabic text, recitation and translation in English!!!

August 25, 2009
Click to view vincem's profile

Actually, I happen to agree, in part, with tnoutside.  I myself am a Christian, however, I find value in most other world religions, except Islam.  I have no respect for a religion that has one of its tenants as "Spread the word of Allah, by the sword if necessary,"  that proclaims suicide bombers as martyrs, that systematically oppresses women, and seeks to eradicate every other world religion and force the world to follow it and to return to the Dark Ages.  I realize that Christianity had its dark past, however, when Christians were engaging in the Crusades and killing non-believers they were acting outside of the teachings of their faith. When Muslims engage in Jihad and kill non-believers they are acting in accordance with their faith.  Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Sikhism, and more all have value as world religions. I don't find any value in Islam.

August 25, 2009
Click to view divebus's profile

What tnoutside and vincem may not realize is that Islam is still maturing. At one time, Christianity was spread by the sword as well. They're about 500 years behind Christianity in maturity.


In medieval times, the King needed to control the peasants and the Church provided the fear. No wonder the Bishop would crown the King - they were intertwined in their bid for power and pleasure. It wasn't until people realized that Church and State need to be separated before the evil of men hiding behind the Church could end. Islam still needs to learn that lesson itself.


The evil of Islam comes from hundreds of "holy men" who actually seek power and influence for themselves. What better way to motivate young fighters than to promise them a harem of virgins when they blow themselves up. Soon, this too will come to light as the same hoax suffered by the victims of The Church.


That's why I'm a retired Catholic. I recognized that earthy men were adjusting the teachings of God to suit themselves. Islam is hopefully coming around to the same conclusion.

August 25, 2009
Click to view educatedmnd's profile

Vincem, you obviously have no idea what your talking about.  There is no where in islam that says spread the word of Allah, by the sword if necessary.  I can tell you that as a muslim, it annoys me when people say things about islam and the statements are so dumb.  this is something that an elementary school student would say: mind you they were never thought anything about islam.


Did you know that during the early years of Islam, the Muslims protected the Christians and the Jews? 

I dont think you knew that because people like you only dish out statements that they read or hear on the news!!!


So let me ask you..have you read the quran and studied islam under a learned practising scholar?  if you have then, i will respect your opinion.  But if you havent, then your ignorance outweighs your statement above. If you can make a statement that you actually believe  without any proof to back it up, then it leaves me no choice nut to pose a challenge for you to take on!!!




Its funny how you say that you find no value in islam...well who do you think came up with algebra, chemistry, biology?  not to mention that a book that was revealed over 1400 years ago can talk about how the two eggs join to form a fetus and how that fetus buries itself into the womb, or that the universe is expanding, or that the earth orbits around the sun, or how the sun has its own orbit, or discusses the formation of the stars, or that there are places under the sea where sweat and salt water don't mix, or how the mountains are pegs...these are just some examples...these were revealed over 1400 years ago....only now has the science community actually seen and admitted to these realities.


And please educate yourself about the concept of Jihad.  You obviously have no idea what your talking about!!!



August 25, 2009
Click to view Truthfull's profile

Vince, as well as any other that speaks without doing research. The tenant in which you are referring to is not actually a tenant but an opinioned concept based upon Western civilization's perception of the term, "jihad" which quite literally means physical confrontation.  Specifically, the Quran teaches that people should not be converted by force: “Let there be no compulsion in religion” (2:256a).  From the creation of the religion until the Middle Ages it was and is true that spreading the word of Allah or "conversion" was done by force.  But, again if you do your research EVERY Jerusalem-born (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) religion from the date of it's creation until the late 1600's used tactics of violence to push it's word.  (i.e. the cruxifiction & the crusades) ALL of these practices exist outside the cardinal beliefs of the religion itself.  As always the uneducated and naive are easily convinced.  Vince, I can tell you're not so much unintelligent as opposed to ignorant.  Ignorance is not a negative unless you find contentment within such, so before you claim such precursors to the obvious unintelligence of 'tnoutside' read the Quran.  You have nothing to lose because it states within the Bible that the truth can always bare scrutiny so your beliefs are safe as long as they are truth.  If they aren't I am certain that you are the type of person to adjust towards what is right and accurate.


Good evening all and God bless us all.


P.S. The ultimate revelation of God-based faith is that no one vilifies another for speaking their native language because such is for the one purpose of communication.  If your chief tenant is love, why practice the prejudice of difference when the differences do not stem from principle but the delivery of such.  Fortunately for us OUR God is not as small minded nor as pity as we are.

August 25, 2009
Click to view EdLee's profile

educatedmnd, I have studied Islam, I am from a Muslim family and lived in a Muslim state as well as a Catholic one for many years ... and I agree with tnoutside and vincem. Christianity and Judaism have had their rough times mostly due to their preachers, but they are not inherently violent and oppressive. Islam is structured upon the concept of submission. vincem has a good point.


It is true that some countries have a mild version of Islam, because it has been mixed and diluted by their own culture, and they try to portrait a better face for the religion, however I honestly believe that true Islam is what the Taliban are preaching and practicing, and we all know what that is.


wunderk, I believe that humanity as a whole needs to have a mandate to fight this evil ... This is serious enough to override political correctness.


August 25, 2009
Click to view StaringInAwe's profile

You people are sheep. Yea, I get it, Islam is love, yadda yadda. Go over to a hardline Islamic nation and give 'em a big hug, they'd love that. I have no love for any religion, they are all the same. One sides great distortion of some original text and guidelines to control the masses as civilizations became more complex. Which one do you have? Doesn't matter, your all blind.


So with that outlook you can just look at the facts... Which of the "countless absurd stories" or religions on the earth seem to condone violence more to themselves and others, and back much of the violence as the rights given to them by their "absurd stories"? I dont see Jews blowing themselves up, not that they are right either.


The majority of you seem to think we can all just get along. Well we probably could, if religion were never invented (which it was). Have I read the Koran? Heck no, why, why read any of them, they were written by men you know, so look at them as fiction at best. And there are some much better books out there.


Anyway, your all sheep. We are all really only agnostic, there is no other real religion.

Something crazy IS going on, and we have FACTS to prove it. Expanding universe, time/space and what-not. But whatever it is that put all of this stuff here doesn't care about you. It (if you can call it that) doesn't know about you. And when the time comes that some stronger, meaner species finds us, and we don't believe their "absurd stories"... I at least hope my iPhone will still work, as it would make a great tool in the resistance, I love my iPhone and cant live without it!


August 25, 2009
Click to view Amera's profile

You're right. Islam is structured upon the concept of submission: Submission to God. Islam is not just a religion, it is a way of life. A way of eating and drinking and sleeping and dealing with others in the best manner possible. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when a person is spoon-fed misinformation about anything, they end up sounding like tnoutside. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone but for those sincerely wanting to know the truth about Islam I want to stress that the way Islam is portrayed now a days is completely unfounded and wrong. Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and love. It encourages every single Muslim to treat their neighbors, the elderly, the sick and the orphan with extreme love and care. Muslims are religiously obliged to give a portion of their possessions to the under-privileged yearly and are encouraged to contribute as active members of their society. The image of violence and hatred has been spreading as a result of ignorant Muslims and non-Muslims alike: it is clear in Islam that the punishment for suicide resides in Hell. Islam liberates women and encourages them to be active members of their society as well. I don't have the time or knowledge to explain every single thing but I hope this will prompt some people to do some research or visit their local mosque to learn the truth about Islam. Ramadan Kareem.

August 25, 2009
Click to view Tischina's profile

Lol, why do you guys even bother arguing with Americans such as tnoutside or vincem? People like them are the reasons as to why America is falling behind education-wise. People like them choose to remain uneducated.

August 25, 2009
Click to view educatedmnd's profile

Every religion has its fanatics...be they Muslim, Christian, Jewish, etc.  talk about a religion based on what IT actually says not what its members actually do. 

My point is very simple...ignorance is the seed to destruction. This nation has always gone thru its persecution of "certain people"  based on religion, race or ethnicity...only to find itself accepting those same people at a later time.

But I am confident to say that no matter what lies are spread...the truth will come out..be it today or tomorrow..for the sake that we all are humans and inhabitants of this great Earth..lets start peace from within ourselves...for hatred towards those who hate..makes us the same as them!!!

August 25, 2009
Click to view Evilislamdie's profile

Islam is all about evil. It is the devils entry into Biblical contestants.

August 26, 2009
Click to view StaringInAwe's profile

American, are being made out to be more "evil" then islam Tischina. But I've been abroad, and there is no place better. And we have the Aircraft Carriers to prove it. Let me guess, China is a better place to raise your kid? (boys only I assume).


Our form of Government, however flawed, is still light years ahead of much of the world, and better than all. So I dont like Obama, I can vote him out in 4 years. What can you do?


I dont hate anyone for their place of birth, or religions that were feed to the as children. We all rock, we just rock a bit more over here in America. Come check it out sometime, we have some cool stuff!


By the way, America made the iPhone, need I say more?

August 26, 2009
Click to view StaringInAwe's profile

Let me get this straight. Are you guys saying that the American Media is to blame for all the islamic violence it reports on TV? I bet if we had the same coverage in Sweden we would see them doing the same stuff probably. Heck, I bet the Danes or Fins probably behead more folks or have more Honor Killings than all peace loving Islamic nations combined, but we just wont show it. Damn American News! Which can be viewed any time on my awesome iPhone.


August 26, 2009
Click to view StaringInAwe's profile

Amera! Good stuff!


"Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and love." - I've seen nothing to the contrary


"Islam liberates women and encourages them to be active members of their society as well." - again, does then even need to be mentioned?? I think we can at least ALL agree that this statement is understood and not in contention. Am I right people?


I feel better, time for some Space Ace on my iPhone! I cant wait for Dragons Lair!

August 26, 2009
Click to view Amera's profile

You can interpret what I said in whatever way you want. I only wish the best for everyone.



August 26, 2009
Click to view StaringInAwe's profile

I appreciate that, and I wish the the best too.



August 26, 2009
Click to view adtv's profile

It's sad to see people argue religion on a blog like this. All we need is a chance to point fingers.


To judge a religion we must analyze its scripture. We can't criticize Islam based on what a small percentage is practicing or preaching. If you say Islam preaches hatred, oppresses women, was spread by the sword, let’s see your proof. We like to insult others but we won’t make an effort to get to the truth through knowledge. We’ve become like talking parrots.


And Remember...


“The barking of a dog does not disturb the man on a camel”.



August 26, 2009
Click to view EdLee's profile

Here's some proof from the Quran:


"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme." (Sure women 4:34)


“Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four” (Sure women 4:3)


“Allah (thus) directs you as regards your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females. These are settled portions ordained by Allah: and Allah is all knowing, all wise” (Sure women 4:11)


O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, - an evil refuge indeed. (9:73, 66:9)


Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)


And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith? And those who strive in Our (cause), - We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right. (29:68-69)


August 26, 2009
Click to view Xeon09's profile

I just made this account on ireport just to reply to this thread. I do not understand why everyone calls others ignorant and tells people to study Islam, but then can not counter what someone like vincem said. ADTV I did a decent amount of studying Islam while in college last year. You are saying we must analyze scripture correct? Not having the time to study the Quran I took myself to a Mosque in Chicago. I was able to speak to a woman after a service. I used our conversation in a paper I wrote on the topic and here is our conversation.


The first question I asked was if Muslims believe in the New Testament and Old Testament and she answered “Yes”.  Then I asked her if someone harmed her mother was she allowed to harm the individual’s mother that harmed hers and she said “Yes”. I then followed with the question and asked if there were any parameters to this and she “yes”, but you can’t kill someone for stealing your shoes for example it has to be of equal punishment. She then followed by, but I don’t know why anyone would want to retaliate.


This is directly from a Muslim's mouth not condoning or condemning vengeance. Each religion has their own reason to believe why their book is 100% accurate and to be true. If this is the case why does Muslims believe only parts of the Holy Bible? To be it seems very similar to picking and choosing what to believe. O yes Jesus was a great man, but that is all he was, a man. Let's just forget the purpose of the entire book and that is Jesus is the son of God. That statement in itself says that Muslims only believe in certain aspects of the Holy Bible. So then would it be wrong as a Christian to believe in certain parts of the Quran? Is that a double standard? I'm not bashing Muslims at all, but as literature the Quran is a poorly written book. It is very hypocritical. In the beginning of the book it speaks about love and only showing other kindness, but as the book goes onward it talks about death. Anyone who is not a Muslim is an infidel. That infidel must convert or die. PLAN AND SIMPLE. This is exactly where many Muslims get their view of the Quran today. You could even say well Muslims see the book differently. Ok well then look at Christian denominations. I saw the other day Lutherans have allowed gays to serve as clergy. Some denominations condemn dancing (Wesleyan). In no way SHAPE or FORM does it speak of EVER killing ANYONE if they do not convert. When the Church did the terrible things it did, it was because of HUMANS being HUMANS. If a Muslim becomes a suicide bomber they have SCRIPTURE TO BACK THEM. It clearly says in the Quran that a martyr will receive 40 virgins when he dies. I'll end with these two verses


"And vie with one another to attain to your Sustainer's forgiveness and to a Paradise as vast as the heavens and the earth, which awaits the God-conscious, who spend for charity in time of plenty and in time of hardship, and restrain their anger, and pardon their fellow men, for God loves those who do good." (3:133-134) If their teaching is to restrain and have peace then where the heck do suicide bombers come from if the Quran doesn't speak of them?


the Qur'an says:... that whoever took a life, unless it be for murder or for spreading disorder on earth, it would be as if he killed all mankind; and whoever saved a life, it would be as if he saved all mankind. (5:32) WTC anyone? Suicide bombers? I guess these people could not constrain not to murder people.


In all honestly I am not trying to bash Islam, but if someone could make this clear to me that would be awesome. Granted I have not read the Quran, but as I said I have done about a years worth of research on and off on my spare time because of my interest in it. I've read a few books and watched a few movies. I do understand the bias that is in movies and book, so keep in mind I try to not let my mind be swayed by them. If Islam is supposed to be of peace they are doing a terrible show of showing it. Watch this video and this PROVES how IGNORANT many people are. Religious and Non-Religious. American and non-American. Look how many people in the world are suffering because of Islam or (radical) Islam. My email is Michael.Teti@student.indwes.edu. Sorry for ranting on this, but this is something i'm compassionate about learning. By the way the title of this article really makes it seem like Muslims don't like technology lol.




August 26, 2009
Click to view Xeon09's profile

Thank YOU VERY MUCH EDLEE for your post and kinda helps mind out a bit because mine was long and a little much because of how I feel about the topic.

August 26, 2009
Click to view EdLee's profile

Xeon09, I understand very well your observations. Islam is not like any other religion. From one side it tells to not steal, help your fellow Muslim brother, etc ... but all in a Machiavellian sort of way. It has guidelines for being good, understanding, being compassionate ... and at the same time being merciless, violent and oppressive.


The Quran is a book of government, it's a collection of guidelines on how to create and rule a submissive society. Somehow like "the prince" in the context of the illiterate society of the Arab peninsula at that time.


There are people that genuinely believe in the good parts of it, and they opt to ignore the rest or interpret it with their own good intentions. The good parts are there specifically to create and facilitate deception, while the other parts teach the rulers (clerics in this case) on how to use the book to achieve its goals.



August 26, 2009
Click to view 911TruthNow's profile

All religions are dangerous cults, but Islam & Christianity are the 2 worst.


Islam is NOT a 'religion of peace', and neither is Christianity.


Folks already posted some scary Koran quotes, so here's some from the good ol' Bible:


Leviticus 20:9  If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.


Deuteronomy 22:20-1  If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house.


Exodus 35:2  For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.


Deuteronomy 7:1-2  When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.


August 26, 2009
Click to view 911TruthNow's profile


Exodus 21:20-21  If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.


Peter 2:13  Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.

2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.


Leviticus 25:44-45  Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.


August 26, 2009
Click to view jetblasted's profile

The Truth about Islam





August 26, 2009
Click to view jetblasted's profile

The Truth about Islam


Monthly Jihad Report

July 2009  Jihad Attacks: 207

Countries: 25

Religions: 5

Dead Bodies: 838

Critically Injured: 2304


August 26, 2009
Click to view Toenail's profile

Mwoodj's comments are correct of course, but I cannot agree that it is necessary to inform yourself about the religions that surround us - there are thousands of them. You only need to understand the principles involved and the human capacity for self delusion.


You cannot be an athiest without accepting the circular logic of religion - because you cannot disprove an untestable thesis. This is how the athiest shoots himself in his own foot and shows his own ignorance. The reality is that religious beliefs are a manifestation of the subconscious mind controlling apparently "logical" reasoning (as in hypnosis)- this is called "deductive reasoning" as opposed to "inductive reasoning". This is achieved through social programming or "indoctrination". Being an "athiest" is literally "missing the point". The logical "content" of religious beliefs is totally irrelevant - so there is no point in opposing it. The subconscious mind does exist and we need to be aware of it.


If you want to be tolerant of religions then you are in danger of propagating the delusions they produce with all of their inherent dangers and risks. It is time for people to realise that we cannot tolerate this process and religion must be opposed completely at all levels. Naturally force and violence should only be used when dealing with vioilent manifestations of religion - such as when we are compelled to kill Taliban and other such violent fanatics. The best way through this mess is to make people aware - through education. Being an Athiest - you have not even thought about it.

August 26, 2009
Click to view adtv's profile

Reply to EdLee:


Here's some proof from the Quran:

"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme." (Sure women 4:34)


First of all, thank you for asking me about my religion. I will not quote anything from the Bible as ‘911TruthNow’ has done part of the job. I am not going to get into a debate on this blog; it is absurd to do that.


Other religions (ie.Christianity) also put man superior to woman (I Corinthians 11:8-9).


The beating (not physical abuse) is the last resort out of the three. In one Hadith the prophet (phuh) “expressed his extreme repulsion from this behaviour and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)”.


Islam gives three options to resolve conflict between husband and wife. These are only to be followed when a man fears disloyalty from his wife. This provides a solution to family problems before jumping straight to divorce.


“Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four” (Sure women 4:3)


Please finish the verse: But if you fear that you will not be just, then (marry only) one or those your right hands possess (i.e., slaves).That is more suitable that you may not incline (to injustice).

“Allah (thus) directs you as regards your children's (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females. These are settled portions ordained by Allah: and Allah is all knowing, all wise” (Sure women 4:11)


In Islam, it is compulsory that father, brother and husband give inherited share to the woman. So if man gets a greater portion the woman will eventually get her share.


O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, - an evil refuge indeed. (9:73, 66:9)

Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)

And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith? And those who strive in Our (cause), - We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right. (29:68-69)


Islam is all about striving, you strive to offer your five times obligatory prayers, fast in the month of Ramadan, and give alms. You also strive to avoid sin. Another important teaching of Islam is to strive to call people to the way of Allah. If you research ‘Jihad’ without bias you will find that it also means to struggle to strive within oneself to fulfill those duties.


Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption(done) in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely (Holy Quran 5:32)



August 26, 2009
Click to view Ruhlmann's profile

It is an innocuous enough story about technology used as a tool for religious expression. Tnoutside your comments are irrelevant to this story. However I do not disagree with the spirit of your belief concerning Islam and it's clearly stated intentions. Why is it we never hear moderate Muslim leaders denouncing the wholesale slaughter of innocents ? Why are Muslim women covered in some instances from head to toe with a screen as the only outlet to life and everyday enjoyment. What social upheaval will take place if women are allowed to drive, vote or be regarded as equal?


We are talking about a faith that encourages public execution for adultery, homosexuality or questioning the existence of Allah. We are talking about a legal system based upon religious tenet that justifies stoning and maiming human beings. We are talking about a religious culture that condones murdering victims of rape amd marrying eight year olds to dirty old men. Let us not forget that in a pique of rage at being called violent by the Pope...they kill a nun.


The mullahs of Islam hold the same power and abuse with the same impunity as the Catholic church did in the middle ages. Islam degrades humanity in it's unquenchable bloodlust in the service of it's savage and vengeful god. Islam as it is practiced is undignified and unworthy of our respectful consideration.


Now...let the abuse begin.

August 26, 2009
Click to view Dsterling's profile

Islam embraces science and for that matter any scientific discipline, because it is in the nature of Islam to learn and foster greater understanding and knowledge of our world and the universe. The basis of seeking knowledge in the teachings of Islam is to ultimately come to reflect and understand that we, humankind are a mirror i.e. microcosm of the the greater universe and understanding the outer world gives access to understanding ourselves.

Islam as we know it historically emerged in the 7th century with the rise of a Prophetic personality and through him Muhammad a clear contemporary, coded message emerged mapping out a route and pattern of enlightened living, reflected in his behavior of the Prophet Muhammad and purely articulated in the Quran for the ultimate realization of the potential for mankind. This message is not new or exclusive to Islam. Islam is the continuation of the divine thread of teachings woven into the cloth of mankind through the ages.

We must make a distinction between Islam and the so-called Muslim World today. In the lands of Muslims there is backwardness, ignorance and "brands" of Islam that are far from the original purpose of the prophetic teachings. The world and mankind is fairly new to this planet in the scale of earths existence. I believe over time Islam's essential teaching and original purpose will emerge and become more assessable to mankind becoming a greater and greater source for decoding the world we live in and ourselves.

The iPhone and technological devices that help Muslims honor their heritage and make accessibility easier will always be popular and for some has given a sense of belonging and encouragement to enter the modern age with tools that reflect ancient values and principles. This marriage of modern technology and the eternal is by its own nature a "sign" that the two are not mutually exclusive, but in fact make each other more relevant in the age we live in.

August 26, 2009
Click to view CrushEvils's profile

Hey @tnoutside, first of all the person who is evil

himself sees everything evil... n you are the clearest

example... guys like you and @tnoutside, @EvilIslamDie

are incurable and fatal for the society... they are the

leeches for the society....


as far as @vincem is concerned, his text is totally

based on wrong information and incorrect references...

the persons such as martyrs, sucide bombers @vincem is

talking about arent muslims... they are same guys like

@tnoutside, @EvilIslamDie, @911TruthNow they are in dark

and are such dumbs that they believe anything they're

told... so at the end they will remain as they are...

till any miracle happens.... 


& & & & for those Who say that they studied Islam and

they belong to muslim family such as @EdLee are totally

dependent on media and news... they dont know whats the

truth behind.... they believe what they are shown...

like the truth about talibans is that they are not

muslim... Islam doesnt says at all that kill people or

do sucide attacks... actually not Islam... every

religion does not allow to kill any human being... thats

too bad that even after being a muslim u dont know what

is Islam about... atlast i can pray for u that May God

guide you to the right path of truth....

EdLee if you spent 20yrs in a muslim family and you

arent cleared... i think you'll need 60 more years to be

get cleared and to become mature to judge what is

correct and what is not.... 


@911TruthNow, all i can say about you is that every one

can have pity on you.... youre qouting bible...

right...? so if youre based on bible u will need to get

back to around 1000 BC's to get the truth because your

bible is not original anymore... it have been gone

through thousands of amendments... so after the numbers

of made amendments its content cannot be said genuine..

n thats guaranted... so next time you have to say

anything get something strong based on truth... May you

Get well soon....


What does Islam says

"The Person who killed any human killed Whole Humanity"


"The Person who saved any human saved Humanity"

Can't you guys use 0.01% part of your brains.... or you

guys dont have it....


I totally agree what @Amera, @Tischina, @wunderk, @mwoodj's,@adtv wrote....



You say America made the iPhone, no doubt about it...

its one of the best things ever made.... but one thing

is popping up in my mind again n again can u please

answer it....

You say America made the iPhone... Is it the same

America who couldnt stop a gang of 4... entering US

which caused 911 and US along having the latest hi-tech

and the most defensive defense systems of the world...


Islam says Respect other religions... even muslims arent

allowed by Islam to say something to other religion...


The image of the Islam created in your minds is just

because of few couple of people who are blind for power,

money and unfortunately they say themselves muslims...


I have no hate for any religion, i respect all other



@adtv said correct....



“The barking of a dog does not disturb the man on a


August 26, 2009
Click to view FrankS's profile

tnoutside: Evil is everything nonchristian I'm sure you understand that.  I hope you understand that NOT serving God means that you must be serving the devil. Are you also awhere that people that do not give their life to God and accept his son Jesus and my brother as your Lord

and Savior, you do not go to Heaven.  There are no just nice people in Heaven.  You must go through his son Jesus to get there.


God Bless


August 26, 2009
Click to view RayRMD's profile

Great story and great use of iPhone!! Only question is why the negative sounding title with the word "collide". Why not "technology enhances religious expression" or the like. Thanks 

August 26, 2009
Click to view FrankS's profile

StaringInAwe:  You can rock all you want, hate for others will keep out of heaven.  The islamic religion is not the problem, it is the people using the religion as an excuse for what they do.  The KKK acted out their hatred in the name of God, because they thought they were right.  Anyone that acts out their hatred in the name of God is wrong.


As Christians we are to Love one another as brothers.


God Bless


August 26, 2009
Click to view vincem's profile

So, (un)educatedmind, the Quran does not say, "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (9:5)"  To me that pretty much sounds like kill all non-believers unless they repent and pay tribute.  I'll say it again, when Christians committed atrocities against non-believers they were acting outside of the tenants of their faith. When Muslims do it they are acting in accordance with the tenants of their faith.  Unlike Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, and so many other wonderful world religions, Islam is based upon forced military conquest, hatred, intolerance, and killing in the name of their God.  I respect all of the affore mentioned religions, and even acknowledge some can lead one to God.  But Islam will lead one to violence and subjugation as a way of life.



August 26, 2009
Click to view trytohelp's profile

I hope no one takes offense to this comment It is not meant to offend anyone. I think people need to wake up and learn the true nature of GOD. God does not have a religion never has never will. Man created religion and no man is perfect only God is perfect. People need to have a closer relationship with GOD instead of thier religion. If you truly believe in GOD simply pray and he will answer you. I don not believe in religion I believe in GOD. It is true to educate yourself to understand other people and why they believe the way they do and respect them as a fellow human being created by GOD and eventually Judged by GOD not man or his religion. All of us need to understand that GOD wants us united in love and peace not seperated by hate and war based on diferences of religious beliefs, the color of your skin or where on this planet you where born. We all are childen of GOD and I do not think one person would argue that GOD wants us to live together in peace and love one another. As far as the I-Phone thing its no different than any other modern technology which can be used for good or evil. But hey what do I know I have palm pre and I don't believe in religion, But I have my faith in GOD.

When the gates of heaven open for you take a look around and see how many different religions there are. Don't be surprised if you can't find any.

have a blessed day everyone

August 26, 2009
Click to view steve03038's profile

It is a pity that so many folks unwittingly continue to propogate so many half-truths re: religion generally, and Islam and Christianity specifically.  Uninformed and inflammatory diatribes, such as some that are posted here, result in unnecessary and unproductive hostility and divisiveness.  I am a Baha'i and believe all religions share the following as a fundamental principle:


"One must see in every human being only that which is worthy of praise. When this is done, one can be a friend to the whole human race. If, however, we look at people from the standpoint of their faults, then being a friend to them is a formidable task." SWA.177


Informed dialogue, as so many have suggested, is the only way the peoples of this world can achieve unity and ultimately establish global peace.  Steve

August 26, 2009
Click to view Namster's profile

tnoutside, your ignorance is what makes the United States look bad to the rest of the world. There is nothing evil about islam, i've served in Iraq and had the pleasure of meeting several Iraqi nationals and they are great people. But, people like you, tnoutside, just fuel the fire for extremists to have a reason do hate us and really your stupid comments get us killed. Thanks


On a second note, they iPhone is getting all sorts of cool new stuff, i'm tempted to get one. Prety soon you won't need to use books, just iphone them all!

August 26, 2009
Click to view LastPlumber's profile

At Elston and Montrose  in Chicago there is a mosque,,,,

If Islam is so peacefull I sugjest they remove the hate sign that is plastered all across the double wide building for all to read.

I do believe that the neighborhood is 99% non muslim 

August 26, 2009
Click to view Yardrat's profile

Can't we all just get along?  Here is an iPhone app that all religions can love:





August 26, 2009
Click to view LastPlumber's profile

At Elston and Montrose  in Chicago there is a mosque,,,,

If Islam is so peacefull I sugjest they remove the hate sign that is plastered all across the double wide building for all to read.

I do believe that the neighborhood is 99% non muslim 

August 26, 2009
Click to view respond2u's profile

To those who try to obscure and ignore the sayings in the Quran - there are no counterparts to these quotes in old or new testaments, so spare us your BS - enough!


Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution  of Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."  There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not.  However, there are also two worrisome pieces to these verse.  The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best).  The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah."  The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.


Qur'an (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."


Qur'an (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."  Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time.  From the Hadith, we know that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding caravans with this verse.


Qur'an (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."


Qur'an (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".  This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').


Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."  The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, led meekly to the slaughter.  These Muslims are killed in battle, as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah.  Here is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.


Qur'an (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"


Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."


Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"  This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but it also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle.  Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption.  (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).


Qur'an (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..."  Pursuing an injured and retreating enemy is not an act of self-defense.


Qur'an (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"


Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"  No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.


Qur'an (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."


Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"  From the historical context we know that the "persecution" spoken of here was simply the refusal by the Meccans to allow Muhammad to enter their city and perform the Haj.  Other Muslims were able to travel there, just not as an armed group, since Muhammad declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction.  The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did).  Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah."


Qur'an (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."


Qur'an (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.  Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."


Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."  According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam.  Prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religions Five Pillars.


Qur'an (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."


Qur'an (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant."  The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.


Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."  "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.  This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years.  Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Qur'an (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


Qur'an (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."  This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.


Qur'an (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew."  See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"  This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).


Qur'an (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."  Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that they are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter.  It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.


Qur'an (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."


Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."


Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."


Qur'an (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"


Qur'an (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an)."   "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context.  It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.


Qur'an (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"


Qur'an (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"



Qur'an (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."  Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.'  Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted?



Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"  Islam is not about treating everyone equally.  There are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status.



Qur'an (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"  Religion of Peace, indeed!



Qur'an (61:10-12) - "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity."  This verse was given in battle.  It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Qur'an (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."  The root word of "Jihad" is used again here.  The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.

August 26, 2009
Click to view LastPlumber's profile



I read a handfull of the curran (sic) and that is what I came away with as well, so I disposed of it in the nearest trash, along with my local newspapers.


You certainly have a lot of energy for this time of day, or did you write all this and save it??ha


August 26, 2009
Click to view LastPlumber's profile

Time to make the doughnuts,,,,

Peace and love sisters and brothers from other mothers.


August 26, 2009
Click to view Rediranch's profile

You should pick your titles a bit better.  Unless I read too fast and missed something, there's nothing in this article describing how an iPhone COLLIDES with Religion.  The article describes using an iPhone, celebrating a religious holiday.  How is that colliding?  Or was your point that Islam doesnt allow for love?

August 26, 2009
Click to view scawa's profile

Reading the posts here, it is interesting how many "non-Muslim" people here have ever REALLY read the Koran.  I am not Islamic and have.  I found it beautiful.  Islam is NOT an evil religion.  What has caused problems is a group of Fundamentalist have perverted the words of the Koran and turned it to hating all non-Muslim and even Muslims who are not of the same "sect".  


Oh my gosh!  This is very much like Christians did during the Reformation, and continue to do to this day.


To kill in the name of God or Allah (by the way the words Jesus would have used in Aramaic to talk about God is Allaha) cannot be condoned.


Oh by the way RESPOND2U, one can find MANY corresponding verses in the Old and New Testement.


Religion is just God with Politics and usually is used as a club over people's head to make them conform to one or another's way of thinking.  We all worry too much about the Letter of the Law rather than the Spirit of the Law.


A true believer should keep their eyes on God and not on forcing their neighbor to believe how they believe.  In the end only God will sort it out.


BUT to get back to the Spirit of Ramadan...  I'm just wondering how one can keep their thoughts on Allah while texting friends on their iPhone?

August 26, 2009
Click to view 2XF's profile

All religions have their + and -, every religion has its fanatics and extremist. I respect other's religion as long as they respect mine. I never try to convert anyone to mine, and I don't want anyone to try to convert me. Respect for one another, and remember your freedom stops where mine starts and my Freedom stops where yours starts... 

I am a Buddhist, like most religion it is more than a religion it is a way of life. I respect others way of life, and I expect them to respect mine...

Give Peace a chance

August 26, 2009
Click to view LastPlumber's profile


The artile was mistitled,,,,

but...as a society here we are.

We really want to talk things out til the cows come home, which is better than lobbing bombs.

I do wish to see the muslims offer some help in the worldwide fight, it would be nice to see THEM hand over the likes of Bin-Laden. Or even a bit of self critsism in a public way...

see ya later bye  

August 26, 2009
Click to view LadyDeerHear's profile

All of these posts just make an argument for there to be no religion at all.  Go back to your faith.  That's what's in your heart.  Not what you've been told to believe by people around you or a book.

August 26, 2009
Click to view JacobsMom's profile

Everybody is talking about thier opinions of the RELIGION, not the TECHNOLOGY, which is the focus of the story. Islam is not my cup of tea, but to each his own. If this technology allows people more access to thier holy writings, so much the better, I guess. I just feel that there is something about the feel of binding and paper in your hands that cannot be outdone by screens and pixels. Give me a paper book over an i-phone app or a Kindle any day!!

August 26, 2009
Click to view voiceof1's profile

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers.  Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding.  Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.


These verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that the historical context is not embedded within the surrounding text (as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence).  They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an. 


Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.  This proclivity toward violence - and Muhammad's own martial legacy - has left a trail of blood and tears across world history.

August 26, 2009
Click to view Dhulfiqar's profile



Quoting (...copy and pasting from a website) random verses without context and knowledge of the historical background is not only naive but discredits you. I can certainly quote verses from the Bible and Torah that are ten folds more bloodier than the ones you qouted from the Qur'an. But I won't play your game.


To my fellow Muslims, it's incorrect to simple say Islam means peace. Peace is a by product of Justice (or 'adl). And justice is the one of the corner stones of Islam. The Qur'an commands justice for all, Muslim or non Muslim, and from every Muslim.


“And if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.“      -Qur'an, al-Maidah:32


“O you who have attained to faith! Be ever steadfast in your devotion to God, bearing witness to the truth in all equity; and never let hatred of any one lead you into the sin of deviating from justice Be just: this is the closest to being God-conscious.” -Qur'an, al-Maidah:8


Now to address some of the other accusations--


Islam Spread by the Sword:


Islam could not have been spread by the sword. Why? Because it was unlawful for non-Arabs to convert to Islam even if they wanted to. There is no doubt this law was against the tenants of Islams but it was enacted by the corrupt and power hungry "Muslim" rulers of the Ummayad Dynasties.


Read: "Voice of Human Justice" By George Jordac.


Gender Equality


Islam advocates social roles and provides certain duties to certain classes and genders. For example, the rich are obligated to help the orphans and the poor in the community. The individual must perform those obligations but there is no restrictions. For example, my wife is a doctor in a very respected hospital in the US but she hasn't forgone her obligation to protect her modesty--she wears a headscarf.


This topic is way beyond this discussion. If you're interested in talking about it offline I'm game.





There's no doubt there's violence in Muslim countries. There are many reasons for it 1. Lack of education, 2. Colonial rule, 3. Pre-Islamic culture, 4. Foreign occuputation, 5. War  ... but not Islam.


Beheading are also common in South America, a predominately Christian society. In fact, before the Iraq War, greatest number of terrorist activity originated from Central and South America.


Violence doesn't have religion or a race...



Anyway -- my offer is on the table if anyone wants to genuinely understand Islam and Muslims I would be happy to have a civil discussion.


Salaam (peace),


August 26, 2009
Click to view JackChambers's profile

One day people will be learning about Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc.. mythology in high school and there will be a new prophets and "holy" books to kill each other over. Humans will always have some form of religion to explain the unexplainable. Religion is for the superstitious (fearful), mentally unstable people of the world. The sooner it is done away with, the better. Then scientific discoveries will abound, and the iphone will look like a child's toy.

August 26, 2009
Click to view CoPilot's profile

I thought you could already get fiction on the iPhone.

August 26, 2009
Click to view serg40's profile

Islam Wahhabi sect and Islam it self is from the devil.

If you pay attention Islam is fighting the whole world.

Why? because of there belifes in allah.( a so called god that is no god at all but satan himself)

They belief that the whole must convert to Islam by all means weather peace or death.

There is no freedom from in Islam specially to choose.

If you dont belife me ask a muslim what sharia law means.

sharia law is that any one whoo convert out od Islam to any other religion must be put to death.

Wow That is really civilzed religion.

August 26, 2009
Click to view nameRequired's profile

Response for both respond2u and vincem.


While im not muslim just a slight clarification for you, you seem to belive that those acting in violence are acting in conjuction with the islamic belif but when christians do it they aren't?  So you seem to belive that the bible has no quotes that are just as brutal and violent as the Koran?  Lets see how true this holds.


Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.--Is.13:16


"I have commanded my sanctified ones ... to destroy the whole land." God has his holy ones do his dirty work for him. Is 13:3-5


Joshua and his army, per God's instructions, slaughter "all the inhabitants of Ai." Joshua 8:22-26


After agreeing to inter marry to join cultures, Joshua murders an entire city with gods blessing.

Genesis 34:1-31



But you Say the bible doesn't suppress women?


A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12)


If you want more violence against women look at Tamar (2 Samuel 13), the Levite's concubine (Judges 19), Jephthah's daughter (Judges 11), Vashti (Esther 1), Suzannah (Daniel 13).


Each and every religon has these violent quotes that manaics use as justification for their actions.  And the idea that Islam as a religion promotes violent more than Christianity is absurd.  Both have been used by others as excuses to do violent actions.


You keep talking about violent muslims what about violent christians.


1) Timothy Mcvay

2) Army of God, using bombs on hospitals

3) KKK violence against minorities


This is just to name a few.

August 26, 2009
Click to view serg40's profile

Typical of all...Everybidy like to quote the old testament. Well we dont live under law (old testament)

but under grace (new testament)

The bible states in Hebrew that when there is transfer

of priesthood there is achange of law.

That priest got changed when christ died for us in the order (Melchizedek priest of most high for ever) meaning new law.

Why not quote while your added this quote: Husband love your wife just as Christ loved the church that he gave himself up for her...how in death. Also read

1-corinthians 13 that talks about love.

When do you ever see a muslim going around the world

helping the poor. Yet you see hundreds of thousands of christian mission doing just that. Showing that Christ is love/not like muslums they will convert or die!

August 26, 2009
Click to view TRLT's profile

To 911ThruthNow: Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, which are given to us in the New Testament. Every one of your quotes is from the Old Testament, which are the among the scriptures that the Jewish religion use. Christians study the Old Testament to put the teachings of the New Testament into their historical and cultural context, but the faith itself, and the tenets thereof, are based on the New Testament - you know, the one that says, "Turn the other cheek" and "This is the way men shall know you, by the love you have for each other" and "God is Love".


To Scawa: Jesus was born Jewish, and would have used Hebrew, not Aramaic. The Jewish people consider God's name to be so holy that no one can say it out loud, so they eliminate some of the letters and say 'Yahweh'or 'Yaveh'.


For those who say the media does not direct thinking in this country: by simply using a misleading title as to what this article is really about, we have spent all this time discussing Islam and have hardly mentioned the real subject of the story. The word 'collide' suggests conflict, when in fact, the story is about how technology and religion have found a way to not only coexist, but to enhance each other. By using subconsciously negative words, we (including myself) have begun and continued what is an overwhelmingly negative debate. A lot of the debate has centered on whether religious texts have been used by power-hungry people, or have been perverted to suit an individual's or group's own agenda. Couldn't this apply to the Mouth of the South, Mr. Ted Turner, and his media empire as well?


Please everyone, have an honest reflection inside yourself about how much you really may be influenced, not only by what the general media is saying through our constant access to it, but how they are saying it. I know I am.

August 26, 2009
Click to view Kina3's profile

WOW! If you're going to pull Quranic versus as "PROOF" make sure you are quoting it correctly


Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (SURAH 4:34)

First and foremost, this verse needs two clarifications. One, that it doesn’t apply to any women, but to ONLY those women who are “rebellious” to their husbands in acts of immorality, such as lewdness, adultery, and fornication. Second, the issue of hitting is a mere symbolic tapping of the hand as a serious gesture of disgruntlement from the husband towards the wife, for her disobediences in the morality of the household, because its an issue of integrity of the family, which the husband is responsible to maintain the honor and respect of it. -www.whyislam.org

Men are NOT allowed to strike woman with anything heavier than their thumb.  Go ahead..try and knock yourself out with your thumb.


If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. (4:3)

Where was the rest of the verse EdLee????


Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah. and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise. (4:11)

Again EDLEE why are you only posting parts and changing words? What kind of human being does that?


O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed). (9:73, 66:9)

"Strive"  Did you seriously change that word from "strive" to "strike" to try to make a point?  How low are you????


Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an). (25:52).  That word is "strive" not strike you idiot.  and gee, STRIVE against them with the "Qur'an".  Yes, because people like EdLee keep MISQUOTING


68. And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects the Truth when it reaches him? Is there not a home in Hell for those who reject Faith?

69. And those who strive in Our (cause),- We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right. (29:68-69)

Yes Allah.  Why do people seem to think we're talking about something besides God.  Goodness it's Arabic, not alien.  In Latin it's Deus, in Japanese its Goezur, in Greek it's Theos, in German it's Gott in Spanish its Dios.  What's the problem?  Can another language not exist besides English to mean God???? 

I went to a Christian funeral the other day in which the pastor told me I was going straight to Hell because I had not been "saved" and in order to be "saved" I had to accept Jesus.  Did I call him evil or say he was wrong? NO!! Because that is his belief.



Seriously, it's one thing to try to post something.  It's another to change the words to for your own benefit.  You should really be ashamed of yourself...

August 26, 2009
Click to view AskBrad's profile

Faith unites us.

Religion divides us.


Everyone seems to be fighting over who has the best invisible friend.


It is my understanding that the 'freedom of religion' is just that. The freedom to choose a religion or to choose no religion at all. Who am I to tell someone what they can or can't believe in? Wait... I'm not bringing Obama into this discussion.

August 26, 2009
Click to view 1WAY's profile

No religion in the world provides for the forgiveness of sin. Apart from the cross of Jesus Christ, all men would be forever engulfed in sin and separated from God. What most religions teach is that if a person's good works outweigh his bad works, he will go to heaven or the equivalent. But if his bad works outweigh his good works, he will go to hell or the equivalent, according to his particular religion. Of course, he does not know until this life is over to which place he will go. What a tragedy! How inadequate is such a religion or philosophy.


Take Buddha out of Buddhism, Mohammed out of Islam, and in like manner, the founders of various other religions out of their religions, and little would be changed. But take Christ out of Christianity and there would be nothing left, for Christianity is not a philosophy or ethic, it is a personal relationship with a living Savior who came to earth to pardon us from sin and give us the assurance of eternal life with God in heaven.




August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

America is a Christian nation and it was founded on Christian principles." This is the Big Lie that is constantly being uttered from fundamentalist pulpits. This untruth has been repeated so often, that most Christians believe that Jesus Christ was one of the Founding Fathers of our great nation.

This was not true when America was founded more than two centuries ago, and it's certainly not true today; America is one of the most religiously diverse nations on the planet. It's this ethnic, religious and political diversity that's our greatest strength; religious polarization can only weaken our union.

If fundamentalists lie about this important matter -- they shouldn't be believed when they wax indignant on moral and spiritual matters. America is not a Christian nation; abortion is not murder; feminists are not witches; abstinence-only sex education does not work; SpongeBob SquarePants and Tinky Winky are not gay (not that there is anything wrong with being homosexual); and George W. Bush does not have a direct line to the Almighty.


Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ideals. The intellectual leaders who created America believed that human reason could be used to combat ignorance, superstition and tyranny; they had a natural animosity toward organized religion. It's not surprising that God is only a footnote in the grand documents that are the bedrock of our democracy.



The Constitution makes no mention whatever of any deity. In the eighty-five essays that make up The Federalist Papers, the Supreme Being is mentioned only twice. In the Declaration of Independence, the Big Guy gets two brief nods: A reference to "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God," and the often quoted line about men being "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights."

If the Founding Fathers were Christians and they wanted to establish a Christian nation, then why didn't they mention Jesus Christ even once in a document that they knew would be the cornerstone and foundation of the emerging democracy? That's like Marx writing the "Communist Manifesto" without mentioning "socialism".

The distinguished leaders of the American Revolution were not devout individuals, and they fought energetically to erect, in Thomas Jefferson's immortal words, "a wall of separation between church and state."

If we define a Christian as a believer in the divinity of Jesus Christ, then most of the leading lights of the American Revolution were not Christians at all. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine were deists -- they believed in one Supreme Being but rejected revelation and all the supernatural elements of evangelical Christianity. John Adams was a professed liberal Unitarian; in his published writings he seemed more deist than Christian. In other words if these gentlemen were alive today, they would be more at home in a liberal Presbyterian congregation than at Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church.

It is latter-day interlopers who have breached the wall of separation between church and state. In God We Trust" did not appear on our coinage until the Civil War, and "under God" was introduced into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy hysteria in 1954.


If we really want to abide by the spirit of the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence -- we will put an end to all this foolishness about bringing back God into our public schools. Those who imagine a Christian America would be paradise would be well advised to consider the theocracies of Iran, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Ironically, as our nation becomes less Christian and more religiously diverse, evangelicals redouble their efforts to make America more Christian.


Everyone who loves democracy and freedom must fight the efforts of fundamentalists to tear down the wall of separation between church and state. Jesus Christ may reign supreme in evangelical churches, but He should be kicked to the curb if He tries to scale the wall of separation and enter the political arena.

America is not a Christian nation.

August 26, 2009
Click to view Researcher23's profile

I have done extensive research on Islam, and the idea that it is a religion of peace is utterly absurd.  The Koran and Sunna are full of passages telling its followers to  assimilate or destroy all non-believers.  The example set forth by Muhammed which Muslims regard as perfect, forbids music, encourages the oppression of women, demands the killing of those who leave the religion, and these examples are regularly used around the world to justify oppressing non-believers, imposing Sharia whenever possible, and acting violently whenever any slight insult is made towards Islam.  Any Muslim who denies this is simply practicing Taqiyyah - the Islamic doctrine which allows them to lie.


I encourage you all to do some research on this religion.  Google "Muslims Gays Norway", read Islam-watch.org.   We are dealing with a disease of the mind that, unless we act to stop its spread, will destroy what we love about our world and throw man into a wretched, oppressed, ignorant existence.  For the record, I am not religious, I think. 

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

AMERICA THIS IS AN URGENT BULLETIN                                                                               

There is an undead hippy zombie walking the streets of America. He has manifested himself on the streets, in homes, and in buildings called "churches". Not unlike the fictional characters portrayed in movies like Dawn of the Dead or Night of the Living Dead, he wants your brains. Not in a literal sense mind you, but figuratively speaking. But nonetheless, it is a real danger! He sports an ancient tome called a Bible. It is a fantasy-fiction novel that depicts all kinds of bizarre and disturbing behavior! From talking snakes, to women who have never had sex getting pregnant, to giving your firstborn sons unto him! If you are infected by this zombie, whom the diseased have named "Jesus", you will begin to hear voices coming from the clouds! You will also begin to believe anything you are told about this "Jesus", a "virgin" mother, and a pious "ghost". In some bizarre sects of this zombie plague, you may even begin to speak in tongues and wrangle deadly snakes, all because "god wills it"!!                                                                               

Ladies and gentlemen, at one point in the history of this hippie zombie curse, "Jesus" enjoyed a large following. However, like teen pregnancy and drug use, with education and reasoning, you can fight the infection of this "religion". It has been shown, over the past two decades, that these buildings called "churches" have seen a decline in infected persons entering their doors. This is fantastic news! Because this means that our plague education and information dissemination campaign is working! More and more people are getting a proper education, and are able to use reason and logic to get their brains back!                                                                               

Make no mistake, however. there are many people in this country who are infected with this zombie curse. It is ancient, and has a firm hold on many in this land. The most dangerous of those who are infected by this zombie base their entire existance on BLIND FAITH. Yes, I know it is unbelievable, but it's TRUE! I am sure you will all agree that blind faith is probably the most dangerous thing to ever be forced on a human brain. As we have seen in Islamic countries, where they have another Ancient ghost named Allah and his "prophet" named Mohammad infecting them, this "blind faith" can lead the diseased mind to commit acts of extreme barbarism. The religiously diseased even go so far as to blow themselves up when they encounter those of us who are not of the same "disease" as them!! Indeed, we have seen this in our country as well when some Jesus zombies actually blow up doctors who refused to be infected by this "Jesus" VIRUS!                                                                               

AMERICANS!! FIGHT THE INFECTION!!                                                                               

We can overcome. I know that one day, reason and logic will prevail for most of us, and we will be free of this infection. Stay strong intelligent, educated, and logical Americans. Everyday we grow stronger while this religious "infection" gets weaker.                                                                               



August 26, 2009
Click to view Squay's profile

Nicely done, Herreros.


Happy Ramadan to you and your family.


August 26, 2009
Click to view JackChambers's profile

How insane you all must be to think that you will go to Zeus or Jesus or somewhere else after you die. If you all believe you go to a heaven then kill yourselves and leave the world to us sane people that do not hear voices, or talk to gods (yourselves). Religion has made life cheap. I believe a person has only one life to live and that life should be protected, enjoyed and preserved. 

August 26, 2009
Click to view LadyDeerHear's profile

100% agree with AskBrad and Jack Chambers.  As long as we follow what others say is the truth instead of finding it in our own hearts there will be war "In the name of God."  Do you really think God wants us to kill each other in his name?  I choose not to follow blindly. 

August 26, 2009
Click to view serg40's profile

The pastor is right in what he said. Jesus himself self said qoute: If you dont belife in who I claim to be...you will indeed die in your sins.

You see not only did he claim to be God he also proofed it with miracle and signs( he cured the ill raised the dead preached the good news about the kingdom of God. Yet his greatest miracle he himself was raised from the dead. He stated that he had the power to lay his life down and he had the power to take it up.

The bible is not something man made up like the koran

Its historical and its backed up by archeology.

At every turn people always try to discredit the bible yet time and time again they get finding that proof that the bible is the genuine thing

The only book inspired by God (God meaning Jehovah / Jesus will never be put to shame)     

In Rome there writing about Jesus. The historical at thet who keep books of what was going on at the time Nero himself was a life.

Quoted this remember he hated the Christians. That there where people who were drying  for a person named Jesus who they claimed was a life.

Yes Christianity is the real thing.

If people are willing to look at the evidence they will find the Christianity is unique one of a king with historical fact in libraries around the world

That are none bias to no religon   



August 26, 2009
Click to view JackChambers's profile

Prove that any of the gods said what you think they said without using your religious book.

August 26, 2009
Click to view JackChambers's profile

I can not comment anymore. To argue with an idiot is redundancy.

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile


First, please go back to school and take classes in English, spelling, and composition. Also, while you are there, maybe you should take some critical thinking classes. Then hopefully, you will learn logic and reason.


#1. There is no "PROOF" of any miracles or signs. Just second, third, and fourth-hand "stories" of a fictitious character named "jesus".


#2. The bible is a man-made fantasy-fiction novel. It was written to keep ignorant, uneducated people in line.


#3. I want you to give me PROOF of ANY archeological finds that PROOVE any of the stories in the bible are real. Of course, cities, bodies of water, peoples, etc. used in the bible can be shown to have actually existed. All fiction novels are based in fact. It was written by people who lived in those times, and these locations actually existed.

I want you to give me PROOF that any of the absurd lunacy that the bible talks about actually happened.

August 26, 2009
Click to view moeconnect's profile

A quote from "A brief Illustrated Guide To understanding Islam" FOR tnoutside

BIBLICAL PROPHECIES ON THE ADVENT OF MUHAMMAD, THE PROPHET OF ISLAM...."In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will  put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything i command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)..form these verse we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics..

1) That he will be like Moses.

2) That he will come from the brothers of the Isrelites, i.e. the ishmaelites

3) That God will put His words into the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God Commands him.


You can say there were hardly two prophets who were  so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Analogies between Moese and Jesus overlook not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well. Theses include the natural birth, the  family life, and the death of Moses and Muhammad but not that of Jesus. Moreover, Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of God and not exclusively as a prophet of God, as Moese and Muhammad were and as Muslims believe Jesus was. So, this prophecy refers to Muhammad and not to Jesus, because Muhammad is more like Moese than jesus.

Also, one Notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies: 1) The Coming of the Christ, 2) The coming of Elijah, 3) The coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were poses to john the Baptist: "NOW THIS WAS JOHN'S TESTIMONY, WHEN THE JEWS OF JERUSALEM SENT PRIESTS AND LEVITES TO ASK HIM WHO HE WAS. HE DID NOT FAIL TO CONFESS, BUT CONFESSED FREELY, 'I AM NOT THE CHRIST.' THEY ASKED HIM, 'THEN WHO ARE YOU? ARE YOU ELIJAH?' HE SAID, 'I AM NOT.' 'ARE YOU THE PROPHE?' HE ANSWERED, 'NO." (John 1:19-21).


2) From the brothers of the Isarelites:

Abraham had tow sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jews nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, i.e. the Ishmaelites. Muhammad, a descendant of ishmael, is indeed this prophet. Also, Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His "chosen one" and 'messenger" who will bring down a law. "HE WILL NOT FALTER OF BE DISCOURAGED TILL HE ESTABLISHES JUSTICE ON EARTH. IN HIS LAW THE ISLANDS WILL PUT THEIR HOPE." (isaiah 42:4). verse 11, connects that awaited messenger with the descendants of kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad.


3)God will put His workds in the mouth of this prophet:

The words of God (the Holy Qur'an) were truly put into Muhammad's mouth. God sent the Angel Gabriel to teach Muhammad the exact words of God ( the holy Qur'an) and asked him to dictate them to the people as he heard them. The words are therefore not his own. They did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the Angel Gabriel. during the life time of Muhammad, and under his supervision, these words were then memorized and written by his companions.

Notes that God has sad in the prophecy of Deuteronomy: "If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, i myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy, 18:19).  This mean that whoever believes in the Bible must believe in what this prophet says, and this prophet is Muhammad.

(please visit www.islam-guide.com/mib for more information on Muhammad in the Bible.)

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

Hell I can write a fiction novel right now. It will be about an undead zombie. He came back to life after he was killed by fairies. These fairies lived in a city called Detroit. They crossed over the Lake of Huron to escape persecution at the hands of the Unicorns. the undead zombie called on people to love each other and performed miracles. He even wanted you to show your devotion to him by eating his flesh and drinking his blood.



Now, 2000 years later, someone will read this book and believe it to be true. Hell, their archeologists will even be able to find remains of an ancient city called Detroit, on the banks of an ancient lake called Huron. 

August 26, 2009
Click to view 1WAY's profile

SplitAsunder & JackChambers:


Would proof really change your mind?  The Bible and Jesus do not need to be defended - both are timeless and will remain that way.  Bottom line is that Jesus loves you and desires a personal relationship with you.  He loves you so much that He would have rather died than to be without you for eternity.



August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile

911TruthNow, Christianity believes in the entire bible, yes, but it emphasizes the New Testament, in which all of those highly specific rules and laws that were specified in the Old Testament are released.  Jesus took our sins and washed them away with his ultimate sacrifice. 


The primary tenet in true Christianity is Love.  That encompasses forgiveness.  It is this new Covenant- spirit-bound contract if you will- that releases us from the need to follow the original rules to the letter.  He is the Way and the only Way.  All sins are forgiven- but you must first give ask for this forgiveness and come to him. 


The next piece is what most Christians struggle with- you need to turn away from past sins, demostrate your new life and share your enlightenment with others and bring them to Him.


And to that end, it does NOT behoove us, as Christians, to bash or bad-mouth another's religions.  But to become educated in all faiths and be capable of intelligent discourse to enlighten those that need Him the most.  Ultimately, it is each person's personal choice that will reflect upon them in the end.


August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile


Proof would absolutely change my mind. Because then, I could form a life around something that was based in fact and not BLIND FAITH.


The bible and jesus absolutely DO NEED TO BE DEFENDED. People are basing their entire existence around these insane fantasy-fiction novels. It's time people stood up and DEMANDED the truth of these lies and absurdities. I know of no god who would ask me to forgo logic and reason, to base my entire existence on BLIND FAITH.

You said "He loves you so much that He would have rather died than to be without you for eternity".


Yet I have to die before I can see him? And hope like hell that the life I lead is worthy of him letting me into his heaven? That's a "benevolent" god? Or that the life I lead was worshiping the right god? What happens if I am a christian and I die, only to find out the the ancient Greeks were right, and Zeus is waiting for me on the other side?


Myths are only religions that no one believes in anymore.

August 26, 2009
Click to view SidRich05's profile

I served in the Peace Corps in an Islamic Republic for over two years, where part of the legal system is based on the old French Colonial laws and part on sharia law.  My entire village were devout Muslims.  I have never seen such hospitality, such kindness, or such love.  Anyone who is near a home at mealtime is invited in to share in what little food there is.  The first plate of food is set aside in case a traveller comes and is hungary.  You may ask anyone you want for water, and it will always be given, because Allah put the water in the ground, no one can charge for it.  They knew I was a Christian, and they were happy about that, because Jesus is considered a prophet; but it would be better if I would convert.  The discussions I had with them about religion were far better than I have had with missionaries and zealous Christians who only want to tell me how evil I am for being an idol-worshipping Catholic.  And amazingly, not a single one of these Muslims, who pray 5 times a day and have all read the Quoran, put a knife to my throat and said "convert or die."


I was far safer as a woman in a Muslim country than in a Christian one.  Women should not be touched by men who are not their husbands, so I could walk through crowds unharassed.  When the taxi drivers got a little too zealous trying to direct me to their cab, all I had to do was raise an eyebrow at his hand on my arm and ask "Are you not a Muslim?"  And he would hop back two feet, properly chagrined.  When I travelled south to very Christian Ghana, there is no such respect for women, and men felt free to grab and grope.


It's simply ridiculous to imply that faithful Muslims must be violent to follow the word of God.  The five pillars of Islam are fasting, alms giving, prayer, the pilgrimage and a profession of faith.  There is no duty to be violent.


I think before quoting any "holy book" you have to take into context the time in which it was written,and the language.  The all important prophecy for Christians, that "a virgin shall conceive", when you go back to that phrase in Hebrew, the word is not "virgin" at all.  It just says "and a young girl shall conceive."  And yet you have an entire mythos built up about an immaculate conception.  But this makes sense when you understand that early Christians, who wrote the Bible a long time after Jesus was dead, were trying to convince Jews of Christ's  divinity by drawing connections to the Old Testament.  The Quoran, was written as Muslims were not just a religion but a tribe at that point involved in conflicts with others tribes, so it makes sense that there is a lot of language that relates to battles against non-tribe members.  Christians didn't start their mighty empire until after they, somewhat arbitrarily, decided to stop adding books to the New testament.  But if Constantine had been around earlier, and his books had ended up in the Bible, you would probably see a whole lot in their about slaughtering the heathen.  Religious documents need to be considered in context when you think about statements literally.  I'm sure there was a reason why ancient Jewish leaders created a law against wearing cloth made from two different threads, but you don't see Jews stoning each other for that today.

August 26, 2009
Click to view moeconnect's profile

SplitAsunder said he needs proof..go to www.islam-guide.com/truth


just a little proof that the qur'an is the word of God.


Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.


The Holy Qur'an mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:  (Qur'an, 25:53)


modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water.


This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. the human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds; fresh water, salt water, and partition (zone of seperation).

from the Understanding Islam

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

You want me to go to a WEB SITE, to see that Islam, or Christianity, or whatever farce of a religion is on there is real? Allah or Jesus is streaming a live web cam from up in the clouds? OMFG. You people really need to get a grip on reality.

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

Ok moeconnect, I'll bite. I went to your "proof" website. And I decided to do a little fact checking on your so-called Quran experts. In less than five minutes, I have already debunked the first "professor" on the list, a Prof. Keith Moore.



In an effort to show the scientific accuracy of the Koran, Muslim's are quick to bring up the claim of embryology revealed in stunning accuracy, before man discovered for himself. Muslims love to tell the story of how professor Keith L. Moore, the former anatomist at the University of Toronto, was impressed with the Koran’s embryological information.


However many Muslim are completely unaware that all of the information in the Qur'an about embryology had already been revealed many different times, centuries before hand. Furthermore, some of the information is scientifically inaccurate.



But don't take my word for it, early Muslim doctors, like Ibn-Qayyim, were first to blow the whistle when they saw the Koranic material, mirrored a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. In 1983 Basim Musallam, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Cambridge concluded, "The stages of development which the Qur'an and Hadith established for believers agreed perfectly with Galen's scientific account....There is no doubt that medieval thought appreciated this agreement between the Qur'an and Galen, for Arabic science employed the same Qur'anic terms to describe the Galenic stages" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54) In other words when it comes to embryology the Qur'an merely echoes the scientific knowledge man had already discovered 450 years earlier.


J. Needham spent almost 60 pages in his book "A history of embryology", discussing ancient Greek, Indian and Egyptian embryology, than in less than 1 page he dismisses the entire Arabic tradition by concluding that "Arabic science ... was not of great help to embryology". After listing some of the verses in the Qur'an about embryology he dismisses them as "a seventh-century echo of Aristotle and the Ayer-veda" . (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 82), in other words a mixture of Greek and ancient Indian teachings.


And what about professor Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who Muslims love to quote as a scientist who saw the light of the Koran? If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. It seems Dr. Moore is not as impressed today. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo: Aristotle and the Arabic and European traditions, pp. 32-46)




August 26, 2009
Click to view 1WAY's profile

The claims of Jesus as a myth or an exaggeration originated in the writings of 19th century liberal German theologians. Their claim was essentially that Jesus was nothing more than a copy of the widespread worship of dying and rising fertility gods in various places—Tammuz in Mesopotamia, Adonis in Syria, Attis in Asia Minor, and Osiris in Egypt. None of these works ever advanced in the realm of academia and religious thought because their assertions were investigated by theologians and scholars and determined to be completely false and baseless. It has only been in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century that these assertions have been resurrected, primarily due to the rise of the internet and mass distribution of information that has no historical foundation or accountability.


If you have never read the Bible then there is no room for argument.  There is a lack of conclusion when questioning the validity/authority of the Living Word of God without reading it from cover to cover.  Furthermore, taking scriptures out of context to make a point makes no point. 


Creation speaks of a Creator.  Something is not made from nothing.  And, the Moral Code each of us has in our hearts is because we are each made in the likeness of Our Creator.   From the words of a former agnostic, C.S. Lewis states in Mere Christianity:  "I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a good moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great moral teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.

August 26, 2009
Click to view LadyDeerHear's profile

Serg40 said, "The bible is not something man made up like the koran"  In fact every book EVER written was written and made up by man.  Not one book ever has been written by a God.  Men have said God told them what to write but people these days even claim that. Facts are that no God has ever written any human books.  And there is absolutely no facts, anywhere in time, to prove otherwise.

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

You said-" the Moral Code each of us has in our hearts is because we are each made in the likeness of Our Creator".


Primates have a moral code. You can easily see, just by visiting a zoo, the love, care, and respect each primate has for one another in their family groups. Even the lowly ant sets up a "moral" structure in it's society, where the many work for the common good of all. That is the very basis of morality.


So by your definition, primates are made in the likeness of the creator. So god is an APE?

Or god is an INSECT?

Because surely you can plainly see, WITH YOUR OWN EYES, that creatures other than humans have a degree of morality.

August 26, 2009
Click to view 1WAY's profile

There's no comparison between human beings and apes. 

August 26, 2009
Click to view AskBrad's profile

Three apes were subjected to an experiment (we will call them Ape A, Ape B, and Ape C. They were placed in the same room with a banana that hung from the center of the room above a ladder. There was nothing remarkable about the banana except it was electrified. So, when each of the apes tried to touch the banana, they were shocked.


After a short while, none of the apes attempted to touch the banana.


Ape A was replaced with a new ape (Ape D). When Ape D tried to climb the ladder, Ape B and Ape C stopped him. Ape B was then replaced with Ape E. When Ape E attempted to climb the ladder Apes C and D tried to stop him.


It was when Ape C was replaced with Ape F and Apes D and E tried to stop him, something remarkable happened. They tried to stop him, but neither one knew why.


Isn’t that what we’re really talking about here?


August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

Humans have 46 chromosomes in their cells while all of the great apes have 48.  In reality, this difference is not as great as it would initially seem because the human chromosome 2 is a fusion of ape chromosomes 12 and 13 with most of the same genes.


We are almost identical in every way, except for small anatomical differences. Apes can communicate. They have the ability to vocalize. They form families and bond with lovers. they care and protect each other. And yet, Apes do not need "gods" to tell them how to live their lives. They need no "gods" to tell them right from wrong. They have no bible or Quran. If indeed, the moral code each of us has in our hearts is because we are each made in the likeness of our creator, as you say....Then the logical conclusion is that god is an ape.


Can you begin to understand now how ridiculous your bibles and qurans are? They are idiocy.


August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile



Although I highly doubt most people here will even begin to understand what you are trying to say.......

August 26, 2009
Click to view sslmhae's profile

True that none of our posts have anything to do with

this article, and I am saddened by the venom and

ignorance that has been posted (for the most

part).  I am a Christian, and just because I

believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the

light does not mean I am perfect. Nor does it mean I

am brainwashed, ignorant, or hateful.  It simply

means that I believe BY FAITH that Jesus died on the

cross for MY sins and paid the price.  That being

said I can't change any ones mind to believe

anything, that is up to God, but I can educate

myself in all things and pray.  I am not saying I

know everything but I am learning. That being said I feel the need to share with you all just a few



First, please know that just because you call

yourself a Christian doesn't mean that you truly

are...there are many who use Christianity as a "get

out of jail free" card.  The bible teaches that when you

trust in Christ that you life will reflect that, in

other words, there are fruits. Please, if you will give just a moment to the idea of education, read the book of Matthew in the Bible.  (I prefer the NIV for reading.) If you will do this with the heart of someone who wants to be educated, not converted, you will see what a true

Christian is supposed to be, and not the hypocrisy

that is so common.


Second, I would like to say (and I am speaking of

Islam because that seems to be the main debate) that

I have Muslim friends that I love dearly!  I have

discovered many interesting and beautiful customs that surround their heritage and religion.  I have so much that I would love to say about Islam and Christianity but I believe it would be better if you read it from the same unbiased source that I have read from.  Please pick up a copy of Unveiling Islam by the Cantor brothers.  These brothers were raised Muslim and therefore have great insight. This book is a book full of information that will help you understand where the "Muslims" are coming from, their traditions, ideas, and why and how they feel the way they do towards the western world.  It

talks about the modest and extremist Muslims and Christianity.  Because these two religions are the main ones at odds, this book is a great comparison

of the two and what they mean to each other.  Everyone who has placed a post on this site has touched on something that is in this book.  If there is any honesty from anyone who truly claims to want to be informed I urge you to add this to you reading library.


Lastly, I want to say that there are many people who say that the Bible is made up by men or has been changed over the years...unfortunately to those of you that say this, I am afraid that you have not done your complete research.  There has never been a book like the Bible. Written over a 4,000 year span of time by 40 different authors, on three different continents, in three different languages and yet completely harmonious. Prophecies written hundreds of years before the events and yet accurate to the smallest detail. It’s contents and descriptions proven accurate and consistent with archaeological and historical facts. One book I can recommend is Truth That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. Here you will find facts to validate the Bibles inerrancy. There is overwhelming evidence for those who wish to know the truth.  Also please don't confuse the old testament with the new, especially when quoting proof of practices. Yes, as Christians we use the old testament as a sort of history lesson but it is the OLD covenant. With the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus the old covenant is replaced with the new and is in Jesus.  We no longer have the stringent and harsh rules of the old testament; Jesus is now the way to Heaven with Faith rather than works.


Thank you for taking the time to read this and I

hope and pray that you will open you minds and

hearts to finding the truth through educating

yourselves rather than following what is the

mainstream thought processes.  I pray that we all

learn to speak to each other with respect and

honesty instead of insults and ignorance.  I also

pray that you all find the truth and we can all

rejoice in knowing that we searched for Him with

open minds, hearts, and honesty.  God Bless all of you.

August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile

Dhulfiqar, I would like to see those verses from the Old Testament- or more importantly- in the New Testament- that you refer to.  I am genuinely curious about studying these controversial fringes of my religion as they pertain to my faith in Jesus.  Instead of simply brushing them aside, I would like to understand them.  So please, do list them.

August 26, 2009
Click to view LadyDeerHear's profile

sslmhae "There is overwhelming evidence for those who wish to know the truth."  Have you ever seen anyone taken from a cult that brainwashed them?  You can make anyone believe anything if you use the right technique and tell them stories that their minds will accept.  The truth is different for everyone.  That does not make you wrong.  But it also doesn't make me wrong.


Everyone on earth is wrong about what happens after death because there is no proof.  But, for each of us separately, we are right.  What our hearts tell us is correct even if it is different than what your book tells you.


Great Point AskBrad!

August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile

I've read some really great arguments here, and am unusually content with the level of discussion.  Very little has been said with hateful words, and quite a bit has been said with at least an attempt at educated discourse.  That alone is worth the use of the word "Collide" to bring you great people here to talk about your beliefs.


That being said, I'd love to see more to counter these assertions:

a) As disheartened as I am to read about the violent passages in the bible (specifically the less than tolerant passages in the New Testament), I am convinced that there are far more passages in the Koran that condone violence against disbelievers and promote inequity among men and women.  And that the ratio of passages that promote positive harmonious tolerance to those that direct negative intolerance is much larger in the Bible.  Though I'll admit that the argument that had Constantine been allowed to continue adding to the Bible, this ratio may have changed.


b) I have seen people try to ask for proof that Jesus did exist and did die on the cross and did rise from the tomb.  But I have to counter with asking why the question shouldn't be to ask for proof that He did NOT exist and die on the cross and did NOT rise from the tomb.  There has been ample opportunity from many enemies of Christianity throughout the ages to refute this.  Why was that never done?  Surely it should be easy to prove this very physical fact in our physical world.  Why has no one ever done this?  People claim to, but then are debunked time and time again.


Finally, this is the toughest item I'll pose to (my fellow?) devout and fundamentalist Christians- why is it that we continue to offer up as proof items that have been widely debunked as false?  (This cuts both ways, actually, as Evolutionists will often do the same thing.  Macro-evolution has never been proven, but that's another discussion.) 


If we have used science to 'prove' something from the Bible, then we have to retract from that proof when the science that we've explained does not actually adhere to the scientific method.  And we canNOT be taken seriously when we continue to hold those proofs up high.


Jesus IS my Lord.  He IS the way.  This I feel in my bones.  But I can't help but question why I believe this, and why I shouldn't believe this.


August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile

To AskBrad regarding the Apes experiment, I wonder what was used to deduce that the last two Apes didn't know why they were warning the newest ape.  "but neither one knew why".


And that makes a great point.  So many Christians today may not really get why they're called upon to be good Christians.  And they aren't doing a good enough job of carrying their convictions out to the public mainstream.  So they're left scratching their heads.


But the electrified banana Is Real.  We all have eternal suffering that lies before us.  And we all have a duty to talk about this and do so in an educated manner!  No hate-mongering or simpleton recitations or pompous condescension will be helpful to convince people that choose not to believe.  We all have a duty to love our neighbor so much as to tell him about how Jesus touches your life.  And let your actions show through.  We are none of us perfect.  And that might be the most important message to share.


People turn to the religion of science and hard and insensitive fact in the absence of seeing Jesus for what he truly is.  It is up to us to show that light shine through.  He DOES stand up to the test of reason, but does not NEED to stand up to the test of science. 


August 26, 2009
Click to view Ruhlmann's profile

Oh c'mon now SPLITASUNDER all the tella tubbies are freaken gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. However I believe Sponge Bob is confused and could go either way.

August 26, 2009
Click to view moeconnect's profile

for those who sees the Qur'an, or unable to spell the Qur'an..i say this..keep doing what you do, or ask your self this..what if? anyway..look this up as well..The Qur'an foretold the victory of the Romans over the Persians within three to nine years after the Romans were defeated by the Persians. God has said in the Qur'an:  (Qur'an, 30:2-4)


Let us see what history tells us about these wars..A book entitle History of the Byzantine State says that the Roman army was badly defeated at Antioch in 613, and as result, the Persians swiftly pushed forward on all fronts..At that time, it was hard to imagine that the Romans would be victorious within three to nine years. in 622, nine yrs after the Romans' defeat, the two forces (Romans and Persians) met on Armenian soil, and the result was the decisive victory of the Romans' over the Persians,  for the first time after the Romans' defeat in 613. The prophecy was fulfilled just as God has said in the Qur'an.


A book entitle History of the Byzantine State,Ostrogosky, p. 95...100-101 and HISTORY OF PERSIA, Sykes, vol. 1, pp. 483-484. Also see The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, Micropaedia vol. 4 p. 1036


August 26, 2009
Click to view sslmhae's profile

Ladydeerhear, I have only presented you with a chance to read for YOURSELF information that may enlighten you.  If you chose not to read it then that is your option.  But if you are going to debate a point you should take into account all of the information.  When you choose not to take into account all of the information then how can you make an educated judgment...as for brainwashing cults...it does happen but only because people do not search for the truth themselves BUT allow others to dictate their truth!  When you refuse to put effort into finding the answers yourself and rely on someone else to give you the facts then yes you run the risk of being "brainwashed".  How can you compare searching for an education to being in a cult?  Do you not look to books for an education in other areas of your life? All I am asking is that you read some information that may change you life, and it may not.  That is fine too, but don't just dismiss the opportunity. 

August 26, 2009
Click to view SplitAsunder's profile

I will summarize my view of christianity. I welcome any and all rational discussion.



1. Christianity is based on fear. While today there are liberal clergy who preach a gospel of love, they ignore the bulk of Christian teachings, not to mention the bulk of Christian history. Throughout almost its entire time on Earth, the motor driving Christianity has been, in addition to the fear of death, the fear of the devil and of hell.


2. Christianity preys on the innocent. If Christian fear-mongering were directed solely at adults, it would be bad enough, but Christians routinely terrorize helpless children through grisly depictions of the endless horrors and suffering they'll be subjected to if they don't live good Christian lives.


3. Christianity is based on dishonesty. The Christian appeal to fear, to cowardice, is an admission that the evidence supporting Christian beliefs is far from compelling.


4. Christianity is extremely egocentric. The deep egocentrism of Christianity is intimately tied to its reliance on fear. In addition to the fears of the devil and hell, Christianity plays on another of humankind's most basic fears: death, the dissolution of the individual ego.


5. Christianity breeds arrogance, a chosen-people mentality. Its only natural that those who believe (or play act at believing) that they have a direct line to the Almighty would feel superior to others.


6. Christianity breeds authoritarianism. Given that Christians claim to have the one true faith, to have a book that is the Word of God, and (in many cases) to receive guidance directly from God, they feel little or no compunction about using force and coercion to enforce "Gods Will" (which they, of course, interpret and understand).


7. Christianity is cruel. Throughout its history, cruelty both to self and others has been one of the most prominent features of Christianity. From its very start, Christianity, with its bleak view of life, its emphasis upon sexual sin, and its almost impossible-to-meet demands for sexual "purity," encouraged guilt, penance, and self-torture.


8. Christianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific. For over a millennium Christianity arrested the development of science and scientific thinking. In Christendom, from the time of Augustine until the Renaissance, systematic investigation of the natural world was restricted to theological investigation the interpretation of biblical passages, the gleaning of clues from the lives of the saints, etc.; there was no direct observation and interpretation of natural processes, because that was considered a useless pursuit, as all knowledge resided in scripture.


9. Christianity has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex. For centuries, Christianity has had an exceptionally unhealthy fixation on sex, to the exclusion of almost everything else (except power, money, and the infliction of cruelty).


10. Christianity produces sexual misery. In addition to the misery produced by authoritarian Christian intrusions into the sex lives of non-Christians, Christianity produces great misery among its own adherents through its insistence that sex (except the very narrow variety it sanctions) is evil, against Gods law.


11. Christianity has an exceedingly narrow, legalistic view of morality. Christianity not only reduces, for all practical purposes, the question of morality to that of sexual behavior, but by listing its prohibitions, it encourages an "everything not prohibited is permitted" mentality.


12. Christianity encourages acceptance of real evils while focusing on imaginary evils. Organized Christianity is a skillful apologist for the status quo and all the evils that go along with it. It diverts attention from real problems by focusing attention on sexual issues, and when confronted with social evils such as poverty glibly dismisses them.


13. Christianity depreciates the natural world. In addition to its morbid preoccupation with sex, Christianity creates social myopia through its emphasis on the supposed afterlife, encouraging Christians not to be concerned with "the things of this world."


14. Christianity models hierarchical, authoritarian organization. Christianity is perhaps the ultimate top-down enterprise. In its simplest form, it consists of God on top, its "servants," the clergy, next down, and the great unwashed masses at the bottom, with those above issuing, in turn, thou-shalts and thou-shalt-nots backed by the threat of eternal damnation.


15. Christianity sanctions slavery. The African slave trade was almost entirely conducted by Christians.


16. Christianity is misogynistic. Misogyny is fundamental to the basic writings of Christianity. In passage after passage, women are encouraged- no, commanded- to accept an inferior role, and to be ashamed of themselves for the simple fact that they are women.


17. Christianity is homophobic.


18. The Bible is not a reliable guide to Christs teachings. Mark, the oldest of the Gospels, was written at least 30 years after Christs death, and the newest of them might have been written more than 200 years after his death.


19. The Bible, Christianity's basic text, is riddled with contradictions. There are a number of glaring contradictions in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments, and including some within the same books.


20. Christianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions. The ancient world was rife with tales of virgin births, miracle-working saviors, tripartite gods, gods taking human form, gods arising from the dead, heavens and hells, and days of judgment. In addition to the myths, many of the ceremonies of ancient religions also match those of that syncretic latecomer, Christianity.


A Final Word: These are but some of the major problems attending Christianity, and they provide overwhelming reasons for its abandonment. (Even if you discount half, two-thirds, or even three-quarters of these arguments, the conclusion is still irresistible.)

August 26, 2009
Click to view Xeon09's profile

This is just going to be an endless thread about opinions. We are not comparing Christianity to Islam at all. The point is that throughout the life of the Islamic religion has been violent. Religion and state SHOULD not be together EVER. This causes serious corruption and an interpretation of a holy book into whatever fits a person at that time. The Catholic Church is only a PART of Christianity. There are many different denominations, but no manner how they differ ALL of the Christian denominations believe that Jesus was the Son of God and in the Holy Trinity. Jesus is love. These denominations get caught up in wording and miss the entire point of the book. Maybe this is happening in Islam, but to a much more violent and polar opposite extint?

August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile

Xeon09, Religion SHOULD never be pushed by the State.  I agree.  But by the same token, I refuse to have the State push on me Non-Religion, which is also a form of Religion in my book. 


If I choose to worship or share my worship, I should be allowed that.  Why is it that often, Christians are the first to be told, no, you can't say that or wear that or erect that, while those of other religions are not challenged in their displays of worship?  (This includes ideas such as Evolution, which are far from actually proven.  To be distinguished from micro-evolution which is not disputed.)

August 26, 2009
Click to view nameRequired's profile

For Xeon09


You said "There are many different denominations, but no manner how they differ ALL of the Christian denominations believe that Jesus was the Son of God and in the Holy Trinity".  Not true there are quite a few denominations that don't belive in the holy trinity and some that belive jesus is God not his son.

August 26, 2009
Click to view Dhulfiqar's profile



InshaAllah (God-willing), this message reaches you in good health.


I'm not going to attempt to quote the Bible and conjure up my own exegesis without having any formal education in the Bible and it's historical background. That would be ignorant. But for those of you interested in a debate between Dan Barker, an Atheist and a Muslim Theist search on youtube: "Does God not exist", Rajabali.


The emphasis of pseudo-love and turning of the cheek is a manipulation of the original Biblical text to pacify the Christian resistance to the oppressors of that time. The Roman infiltration and Pauline corruption of the Original word has been very deterimental to Christianity. Christianity was been changed forever--paganistic rituals and beliefs introduced. Have you guys thought to think why the greatest Christian minds (including those that found this country) rejected the Trinity?


You cannot emit love and compassion without Justice and 'ehsan (weighted balance) it is illogical--in fact it would be oppressive. And that's the flaw.


Wa Salaam (With peace),


August 26, 2009
Click to view Ruhlmann's profile

“The barking of a dog does not disturb the man on a camel”.


Okay it's all clear now. Why didn't you say that before?

August 26, 2009
Click to view AskBrad's profile

Christianity is the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magic tree.


How about this. What if everybody was just civil to each other? Could I classify that as the basis for a new religion? Can I get a tax exempt status for my new 'church'?

August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile



I am torn, since this topic is incredibly interesting to me, yet I have work to tend to, and just can't spend the time it deserves.  (Yeah, just realized how much time I have to mark off of my time card!)


But I will abbreviate a response to you on your post.


1. Christianity is based on fear...

Though history has shown Christianity to have been abused, it is based on Love, not fear.  And though God is meant to be feared, he desires your Love.  As much as we'd like to create our own Gods to our own liking, we do not choose our God.  He is almighty, and we do have cause to be fearful.  But he proved his Love for us by sending us one last hope in Jesus.

2. Christianity preys on the innocent...

I personally didn't experience this emphasis on fear-mongering, though as far back as I remember, I have always held healthy skepticism.  Which ironically, I ask Him- and Science- to help me with.  Both to prove and disprove his existence.

3. Christianity is based on dishonesty...

There has yet to be one shred of evidence that stands the test of logical reasoning that contradicts anything about Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.  And there has been ample opportunity from numerous detractors over 2 millenia.

4. Christianity is extremely egocentric...

I don't suppose I can refute this, nor find any need to.  God does not need any reason to excuse Himself of what he requires from each of us.  However, if you step back and must, for logical reasoning, take Him out of the picture, Christians are called to be everything but egocentric.  They are asked to give everything of themselves in order to share their wealth and positive outlook on others.  From what I've been presented on various occasions, of all the religions in the world, Christians are the most giving per capita.  They have been responsible for more improvements to social conditions than any other religion or anti-religion.  I wish I could provide references to these assertions, but I know that we haven't reached our full potential yet, and have much more giving to do.  I find the idea that Christianity to be egocentric to be somewhat blind to egocentric other ideas are.  Isn't it also egocentric to believe that everything around us just 'happened' to happen- and that we have no one to thank- and that we have in effect developed the complete awareness necessary to postulate that we can fully understand our origins using articles of our own invention?  That to me is quite audacious.

5. Christianity breeds arrogance...

Yes, I suppose you can call it arrogance in that it purports to be the only way to Salvation.  This it is, unabashedly.  But to the extent that any of its followers are exuding any sort of arrogance, that is one of the flaws that we, as Christians MUST recognize and defeat.  It benefits no one to carry on airs or appearances.  It is self-defeating because it ends up looking hypocritical.

6. Christianity breeds authoritarianism...

The New Testament, as I understand and accept it, does not compel me nor anyone else that I know to use force or violence to spread it to others.  It does ask you ask yourself tough questions so that you can accept Him with your whole being.  In this manner you can share your conviction with others.

7. Christianity is cruel..

Unfortunately, in the Old Testament, God showed himself to be highly intolerant.  He has no one to make excuses for.  He simply is who He is, and yes, to everyone's chagrine, you can't mold him to be who you want him to be.  He allows awful things to happen.  In some cases he commanded awful things to happen.  But only He knows how things are supposed to play out.  And we have to lay our trust in Him.  I don't claim to understand how he can allow these things to happen.  In fact, this is the one thing that I continue to struggle with.  But somehow, I know he will never give me more than I can handle, and that he will always console me.  Somehow, I have never doubted this one comfort.

8. Christianity is anti-intellectual, anti-scientific...

Natural science and True Christianity will never be harmonious.  They are complete juxtaposed atop one another.  Science will never admit the possibility of supernatural interferences (though it will continously invent new hypothesis upon which it will circularly 'prove' itself, just as it chastises religion of doing so); Religion will always rely upon itself and thereby refute anything that disagrees with it; Christianity simply has yet to be disproven by science, nor does it disagree with science- other than to make claims that science can't disprove.  Though in the past, Christianity has stunted science, I welcome a new attempt at the creation of an elevated science that leaves room for ALL that we know- not simply that which is measurable in the physical world.  I have no idea how this would be done.

9. Christianity has a morbid, unhealthy preoccupation with sex...

It's to stay in the marriage bed.  Between man and woman.  Many will cry wolf on this.  Again.  We don't get to choose our God.  By the same token, we all have sinned, and I won't claim that I waited for the nuptuals.  But we all have an opportunity to turn away.  Some will have a harder battle to wage.  Some will carry different crosses.  He gives you only what you can handle.  You can handle it.  Come to Him, and He will help you.  Take baby steps.  Slowly you will gain strength.  And know that you will find new challenges along the way.


10. Christianity produces sexual misery...

Sex in the narrowest of varieties.  It behooves you to wait (as best as you can) until marriage.  And then, to nurture your marriage so that it is healthy and exciting within that bed.  Between the rings, everything goes.  It's not sexual misery.  It's meant to be special- people don't consider it to be special anymore.

11. Christianity has an exceedingly narrow, legalistic view of morality...

It's supposed to be Love.  Period.  Anything which doesn't promote the well-being of yourself and others around you is a perversion of the faith.  This, to the surprise of any fundamentalists, does direct us AWAY from being hateful or vengeful against people that have done us harm or people whose sexual preferences aren't of our own acceptance, or especially in this thread, against people that don't share our beliefs.  We should certainly defend ourselves, but we must do that with knowledge and enlightenment, and not with the sword.

12. Christianity encourages acceptance of real evils...

One imaginary evil might be considered your use of straight-laced reasoning and matter of fact tone.  The devil wears prada, right?  Well, he speaks with a convincing tongue, that is for sure.  And he has found a voice through you.  But I propose that perhaps he has found a way to instead provide fodder for discourse.  And to provide further conviction for at least me, and countless others who may read this.  Jesus is reaching out to you in every way.  Not to make you a zombie, as others have alluded.  But because He Loves You!  Why is Love something to be cast aside?  I propose that we have simply become fearful that it also requires us to live up to certain expectations.  Our own personal flaws and failures- those are real evils.

13. Christianity depreciates the natural world...

No argument here.

14. Christianity models hierarchical, authoritarian organization...

This doesn't really jive with the idea that most Christians favor smaller government and more personal freedoms.  I'd posture that in fact more non-Christians are in favor of a more authoritarian government in the form of the removal of religion and the removal of personal convictions.  This is the Marxist method of slowly usurping the individual into the cause for the greater good.  Free Will, baby.  We all have it and can live or die by it.  Christianity should not be forced upon anyone- and I say this to all believers and non-believers alike.

15. Christianity sanctions slavery...

I can't explain or defend this one.  I have read the passages.  I can simply say that somehow cultural bias from the period snuck into the books.  Don't forget that all cultures were practicing slavery at that time.  (And in parts of Africa today, people continue widespread enslavement of their own people- so that cultural flaw seems to be timeless.)

16. Christianity is misogynistic...

You call it misogynistic.  We call it the proper order of things.  I try my darnest to give her what she needs, and she tries her darnest to give me what I need.  She is commanded to Respect me.  I am commanded to Love her.  This is primarily because these are the things that we tend to be weak at.  Women find it easy to love, but harder to respect.  Men find it easier to respect, but harder to Love.  Ultimately, I expect her to submit when a decision is controversial and has erupted in conflict.  And she does this.  Likewise, most decisions I leave to her because I know better, and I prefer her to be happy.

17. Christianity is homophobic.

How about homophillic.  No, homosexuality is not condoned.  But it should be accepted as a battle that is waged within the person that is afflicted.  We don't hate the sinner.  But we despise the sin.  And though we may continue to sin, we are asked to turn away from it.  Again, you must bring it to Him so that you can begin healing.

18. The Bible is not a reliable guide to Christs teachings...

There are several books of the period that historians rely upon for accurate history.  Most of those took a few hundred years before they went from event to written manuscript.  Why not question those books for accuracy?  Homer and the Oddysey (sp?), which I've never read, comes to mind.

19. The Bible, Christianity's basic text, is riddled with contradictions...

There are things that seem inconsistent.  But most of those inconsistencies can be explained by context and period.  Some things that were unsanitary unless done in a certain order for example simply do not require specific instructions anymore.  Some things just don't make sense- but we are not meant to understand it all.  Just try to live by the majority which you can understand.  The vast majority of the books speak primarily toward Love, Forgiveness, Charity, and Hope.  This, tied together sharing the same vein and theme- all from various people who lived in completely different lifetimes, speaking various languages and living in many different lands.  I'll bet you'll find a higher ratio of contradictions in our own federal law books.  And those are supposedly controlled with the utmost of care by one presiding authority.

20. Christianity borrowed its central myths and ceremonies from other ancient religions...

This is curious.  But not altogether surprising.  Could it not be that perhaps we're all built to "tune in" to God, and that perhaps He had toyed with the idea of transmitting his Word on more than one occasion?  That's just for fun.  But the difference really is that none of the other 'myths' had laid any direct claims to something physical, timely, and real.  Jesus is an actual historical figure, and everything written about him laid claim to specific physical and historical events.  And he made one final claim that no others had ever dared to make successfully.  He rose from the dead.  Why?


For you, SplitAsunder.  And for everyone that you're helping me to talk to.  He will choose a moment for each of us.  And it's up to you to take him in and help heal you, or to reject him and be lost.  I pray you can help people come to Him.


All is not lost.  Christians must simply stop being led into the temptation to promote Him with evil words or doings.  It behooves us to share His true Word- and to quit being afraid to follow his teachings, turn away from those delectable sins, and live out a righteous, joyous life.


August 26, 2009
Click to view cfrias1369's profile



I like your synopsis.  That's actually very entertaining.  What you took completely out of it was His Love for you.  In your parody, you're staring right in the face of truth and saying, "Oooh... Naah, not buying it." 


The only reasons NOT to believe, for an educated and reasonable person, that is fairly weighing ALL of the facts, in my opinion, is that people are afraid a) to concede the fact that they don't know it all, and that perhaps the truth is staring them in the face, b) to have to abide to some level of self-restraint against sins that they refuse to admit might actually be sins against your soul, c) to give up that control that comes from saying hey- it's all me here- I refuse to have something to be held accountable to.


Of course this discounts other religions that claim to be true by their own account.  Unfortunately, they don't stand the test of scrutiny, and certainly aren't based on a God that is based on Love.  At least not to me.  Maybe Zeus will be pissed at me for saying this, but I'll take the Zombie Jew over him any day of the week. 



August 27, 2009
Click to view EdLee's profile

So much hypocrisy, how can one name himself "Dhulfiqar" and preach for peace!


Dhulfiqar is the legendary sword of Imam Ali the son in law of the prophet. The same sword that killed so many in the name of Allah in order to spread the religion of peace.

August 27, 2009
Click to view sslmhae's profile

cfrias1369- Thank you!  Well said. 

August 27, 2009
Click to view Dhulfiqar's profile



(Jesus speaking): "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

-Luke 19:27


I haven't preached peace. I'm advocating Justice. The Dhulfiqar was the heavenly sword that was presented to Imam Ali (Peace of God be upon him) through the Arch Angel Gabriel when his sword shattered during a DEFENSIVE battle when the pagan Meccans broke the peace treaty and attacked the Muslims.


The Dhulfiqar was a living entity and was never used preeminently. The last time Al-Dhulfiqar was used in battle was by Imam Husayn Ibn Ali (Peace of God be upon him) in the Battle of Karbala (by the river Euphrates).


The Battle of Karbala was prophesied in the Bible:

"For is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries; and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood; for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates "

-Jeremiah 46:10



Read what non-Muslims say about Imam Husayn:


"My faith is that the progress of Islam does not depend on the use of sword by its believers, but the result of the supreme sacrifice of Husayn, the great"

-Mahatma Gandhi


"If Husayn fought to quench his worldly desires, then I do not understand why his sisters, wives and children accompanied him. It stands to reason therefore that he sacrificed purely for Islam."

-Charles Dickens


"In a distant age and climate the tragic scene of the death of Husayn will awaken the sympathy of the coldest reader."

-Edward Gibbon (The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, London, 1911, volume 5, pp391-2)


“The sacrifice of Imam Husayn is not limited to one country, or nation, but it is the hereditary state of the brotherhood of all mankind.”

- Dr. Rajendra Prasad


“Though Imam Husayn gave his life almost 1300 years ago, but his indestructible soul rules the hearts of people even today.”

- Dr. Radha Krishnan


So I'm very proud to call myself Dhulfiqar, the antithesis of injustice, oppression, and bloodshed.


With Peace,


August 27, 2009
Click to view AskBrad's profile

I love when someone tells me that we have to have war (or violence) in the name of peace.


It's like the people protesting a war for oil with plastic signs. (all of whom came there in their daddy's SUVs.)


Someone (earlier on) wrote that the books (bibles, etc...) were written by man.

Imagine today if someone came forward and said they heard voices in their head and was controlled by god to write a book. (Other than Dyanetics and the Book of Mormon.) And, this book contains verses descriptive or advocating suicide, incest, bestiality, sadomasochism, sexual activity in a violent context, murder, morbid violence, use of drugs or alcohol, homosexuality, voyeurism, revenge, undermining of authority figures, lawlessness, and human rights violations and atrocities. (the Bible) Would anyone believe that it was the work of God? Would they lock the person up and feed him mind-altering drugs?


Whatever. It’s not “God” that is telling the priests to molest Altar Boys. However, it is the Church that is covering it up or trying to divert our attention to something else.

Again, Faith unites us. Religion divides us.


August 27, 2009
Click to view JackChambers's profile

Faith is for people without facts. Religion is for those who are "evil". Good people do not need someone or something to save them.

August 27, 2009
Click to view FrankS's profile

Jack Chambers beliefs like that will get you to hell, but not to heaven.

God Bless You Jack

You will never meet him.  Good people do not go to heaven.


God Bless


August 28, 2009
Click to view JackChambers's profile

You miss the point. I am not afraid of hell. It does not exist, nor does heaven. If a person needs a religion to feel secure in their life, it is because they feel some form of self condemnation. In other words they feel guilty for the bad things they do and need forgiveness. I don't do bad things.

September 11, 2009
Click to view FrankS's profile

Jack, Jack, Jack your obvious ignorance about heaven and hell will doom you forever.  By not doing bad things, do you then assume that you are good?  I can see that you do not read nor have you ever read the bible.  Once as a Christian you ask for forgiveness, that forgiveness is received.  Just as a small point.  Saying that you have never done anything bad, is in fact bad itself.  Are you calling God a liar.  There's time to repent and change.

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