Monday, January 10, 2011
Overheard on CNN.com: National tragedy in Arizona

vigil

 

Quote of the day: Wow! Real heroes don't need guns!  --DrBombayo

 

Bystanders wrestle gunman to the ground

Seconds after Jared Loughner opened fire at a Safeway in Tucson, Arizona on Saturday several people tackled and subdued the gunman, including a man who had been grazed in the head. Their quick action likely prevented more loss of life and injuries and many CNN readers praised them.

 

Ayanzo said, “The man who grabbed the gun and got grazed by a bullet in doing so…that took a lot of courage.”  AjaDiamond said, “These people are truly heroes. We would all like to think that given the same situation, we would act in a similar manner. I can only tell you that I came face to face with an unarmed burglar in my home, and I was almost frozen in terror. loriey said “To make a snap decision to put your own life on the line in order to save another's life is true courage. It's not about being a hero, it's about what is truly important in life, helping other in a time of their greatness need. All those involved have shown courage and love for others.”  Phosphofruct said, “The people described and interviewed in this story should be commended for their bravery. Many more lives may have been lost and the shooter probably would not be alive allow us to learn more about why this happened, assuming he ever talks. We owe any understanding we gain for the rationale for this tragedy to these brave people.”

 

Some readers were surprised that, considering Arizona’s lenient gun laws that the gunman wasn’t shot by someone. disgirl said “I do NOT understand why no one shot this guy. I've lived in Arizona and Texas. Guess what? They carry more firearms openly in Arizona. My poor Texan husband thought a record store on Mill Ave was being held up because some of the patrons were discussing guns and had them out. pingpaul said “Just wonder how many people in the audience had concealed handguns. Why did they not react?” and 113162 added, “I wonder ‘where did all the gun-totin’ Arizonans go?’ I expected the perp to be met with a hail of bullets.”

 

And finally a few readers said it’s encouraging to see more citizens taking action in crisis situations.  rmtaks said, “In a story several weeks ago, a woman tried to knock a hostage taker's gun away. This guy got wrestled to the ground by a crowd. I'm glad people are getting over their bystander syndrome and concern only for self-preservation. It is this spirit that makes our country great, not calculated moves for our personal benefit. I wish our politicians would get on the bandwagon.”

 

Shooting spurs debate over rhetoric

 

The shooting events on Saturday are also sparking a national debate about how hate-filled rhetoric is treated by politicians, the media and the general population and CNN readers had plenty to say about the matter.

 

Some readers saw this controversy as a problem for both parties, although others didn’t. Heythomas said “The recent practice of debate is to repeat a lie long enough to make it sound true. A lie has no place in political debate, but we allow it. The recent election was a disgrace on both sides of the aisle and why do they sit on opposite sides of the aisle?” Guest said “Our politics have been mean, hateful, accusatory, inciting and violent for the past few years on both sides. Now our politicians are worried and want security from the whackos they have inspired. What idiots. Did they not see this coming?!” richunix said “I served in the U.S Army and after 21 years, two wars and three campaigns (two of which were combat tours) I believe in the United States and support both parties, however I refuse to give in to political rhetoric that breeds hate (both sides).  Scieng said, “If we want a rational discussion, we have to begin with rational ideas, and discuss them. The constant stream of hate we have seen from the left—and the far right, just makes rational discussion harder to hear. “ But momomiester  disagreed, “No jobs, a communist country funding our debt while taking our jobs, a war in which there is no defined goal, out-of-control government intrusion and debt and we are supposed to "tone things down" due to some mentally ill wacko? I think not. The stakes are too high.”

 

Girl born 9/11 dies in shooting

 

While many comments reflect plenty of disagreement and finger-pointing, CNN readers all agreed that the loss of nine-year old Christina Taylor Green, who was born September 11, 2001, was tragic.

 

sol740 said “When I read Mr. Green's words about choking back tears upon realizing his daughter would not be there to wake him, that's exactly what I had to do, choke back tears. I am not a religious man, so I cannot pray for your family, Mr. Green, but you are in my thoughts and millions of others. “ sfsocla said “What a tremendous loss for the child, parents and other family members. May peace bless you all.” Theanalyzer said  “She was born on such a tragic day and she died in such a tragic way! I pray everyone sees this as an eye opener to where our country is headed. We have to learn to compromise before it’s too late. God bless little Christina and her family. mknight33 said “I have a nine- year-old little girl. Makes me so sad for this little girl and her family. She took a bullet for crying out loud.” And snowyowl  said “Farewell Christina. I wish you were here. I think the world needs bright little girls like you right now. We so-called grown-ups aren't doing a very good job with things. In fact we've really messed things up. Rest in peace.”

 

Some CNN readers had a problem with the 9/11 connection while others supported it. CAL08 said, “The fact that she was born on 9/11 shouldn't be part of this story. Thousands of people were born that day all around the world. When they pass on, we don't need to use that fact to remind us of the tragedies that have occurred in the past. This one was sad enough.  We don't need to tie them together.” Karenforyou said, “This child’s birthday on 9/11 with her story in a book called, Faces of Hope based on the babies born during the 9/11 terrorist attack and her death by this monster in Tucson brought chills down my spine. Love to the Gifford's family and the victim’s families. I am so sorry.”

180 Comments
January 10, 2011
Click to view denhy's profile

I am a constant viewer of CNN news and have been following the Tucson tragedy as I have a 9 yr. old grandchild there and have been on the corner, at that Safeway often. Tonight I heard at 7:12P.M, D.S.T on the Parker/Spitzer program(I believe)the recording of Rush L.broadcast of badmouthing the Sheriff of Pima Co. I was embarrassed and ashamed of those reporters. It was in very poor taste.it was exactly the inflammatory rhetoric that the sheriff was referring too. A public apology is certaining needed from CNN.What a disgrace.Jan

January 11, 2011
Click to view wolvtrax's profile

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,”

 

Barack Obama

January 11, 2011
Click to view jdub45's profile

Some readers were surprised that, considering Arizona’s lenient gun laws that the gunman wasn’t shot by someone. disgirl said “I do NOT understand why no one shot this guy.

 

Maybe because they were smart enough to not start firing a gun in a crowd?

January 11, 2011
Click to view biglio's profile

In Italy through the years, our prime minister was assaulted twice by unhinged individuals, once with a camera stand and another was thrown a small statue souvenir, the second one broke him some teeth and a couple of face bones. No one else was hurt. In Italy we have strong gun laws. In Arizona an unhinged individual kills six people and injures scores of others. In Arizona there are lax gun laws. Even my 2 years old could see the difference.

January 11, 2011
Click to view dmontero's profile

I don't think a public apology to Rush Limbaugh and the like is necessary.  What I think that everyone needs to do now is examine the gun laws to not enable people who are mentally ill own firearms.  Everyone, abolsolutely everyone needs to tone it down.  Democrats, republicans, independents . . . everyone.  This has gone as far enough as it will go.  What else needs to happen  . . . nothing I hope.

January 11, 2011
Click to view LeoRD's profile

Very sad day for this country! Lets stop the war. Peace, progress, health and prosperity. Let us remember Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and Gandhi at these times. We don't need bitterness and war to find solutions to the nation's ills!

January 11, 2011
Click to view meinTexas's profile

After witnessing this weekend how badly liberals attacked fellow countrymen over an act that they clearly had nothing to do with, I'm embarassed.  Liberals are eroding everything this country was founded on.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Jimbo2K8's profile

@meinTexas,

 

The liberals were not the only ones pointing fingers.  The issue isn't a political one in this case, but a mental health one.  This young man was clearly obsessed with the Congresswoman, and acted on his obsession.  If you talk to security individuals, law enforcement, etc, they are not so afraid of groups of people, which they can see coming.  It's the individuals, who can escape notice, that really scare them.  And this guy was such an individual.  No way that law enforcement could have seen him coming.

January 11, 2011
Click to view rgpaps's profile

It's a red state what do you expect! 

January 11, 2011
Click to view coffegirl's profile

Just like at home, if I am an insulting parent, teacher or in any leadership role, my behaviors will be mimicked by those that I lead...Our politicians are our leaders!  They have a responsibility to level headed, think for themselves, and show respect to fellow citizens!  Every politician needs to go back to Kidnergarten to learn some manners and stop trying sell themselves with the shock value, like Miley Cyrus does.

January 11, 2011
Click to view JasonSeacres's profile

meinTexas "After witnessing this weekend how badly liberals attacked fellow countrymen over an act that they clearly had nothing to do with, I'm embarassed.  Liberals are eroding everything this country was founded on."

 

Gee, meintexas, if Liberals are eroding everything this country was founded on, you think we should stop them? And How?

 

Of course, if you're simply inflaming the rhetoric yoruself, you're exactly the problem.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view scieng's profile

These are considered federal political events, and carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by law.  Like schools, these events are unprotected unless by law enforcement officers.  Another example of how the innocent died defenseless.

January 11, 2011
Click to view tepeters's profile

These are reactionary times because people are fearful. It is not the first time in this or any country's history that this has or will occur. Fear turns to hate as one looks for blame. When people are fearful they are susceptble to the worst demogoguery, manipulation of fact, seeing enemies everywhere including their own government. They are afraid because what they believe their world should be like is not that way, so they see threats everywhere. But the world always changes. There is no perfect order and we must assist each other in adapting to the events of the day and cannot be enthralled by our past. Those who feed fears with rhetoric of the enemy within will have that rhetoric adopted by those with individual pathology who use the ideology of that rhetoric to justify assassination and violence. So it is that the madman in Arizona who adopted an eclectic ideology with the rhetoric of violence to rationalize his own madness. We can debate ideas without accusing people who see a different path of being an enemy of the nation or its people. These are trying times in a world of change but heated rhetoric aganst your fellow citizen or your own government is a formula for disaster.

 

To quote Lincoln in an address to Congress: "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country. Again to quote Lincoln "America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Prairieson's profile

Does the movie, "The Assasination of George W Bush" ring any bells?

Where was the righteous indignation when that movie came out and CNN, MSNBC and others were mentioning it's release with no accompanying rejection of the title and content?

January 11, 2011
Click to view LDRP's profile

I remember what politics were like before Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, and the "Contract with America."  The hateful rhetoric accelerated during those years, and remains acceptable practice.  Incivility and bullying have become the norms.

 

Tom Delay was sentenced to jail time for money laundering, and yet remains defiant.  The vitriol in public debate has brought us to where we are now.

 

Actions have consequences.

January 11, 2011
Click to view acylate's profile

We don't need more gun laws, but we need to enforce the ones we already have. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Kabbiblez's profile

Its amazing to me how People are unwilling to be civilized, your right, our system is broken, and people that cannot make a point without resorting to threats of violence, lies, halftruths, slander, and general mean spiritedness are to blame

 

Noone is asking you to not be passionate, noone is asking you to not say whats on your mind, what were asking is that you string your sentences together in a way that is not dishonest, violent, offensive, or just mean for no reason.

 

That lesson needs to be learned by everyone, the liberals judged and howled before anything was known, conservatives are using it as a "look how they have wronged us" political bonanza, ALL of you need to and realize that the people you are talking about are people, maybe wrong, maybe misguided, but people...

 

I guarantee that if you were in front of me without a camera in my face none of the things you say would come out of your mouth, and that is intellectual cowardice, and dishonesty to boot.

 

all of you people need to think before you open your mouth, most of us were taught that in grade school

January 11, 2011
Click to view 19cas's profile

I just love how the rest of America thinks everyone is carrying on their hip out here. Media spin on Arizona and guns pre-tragedy is hilarious. I can count on one hand the number of times I have encountered someone with a gun on their hip, and I have lived here for 33 years. I am a gun owner, but like most gun owners the gun remains in my home. I carry it on my person when hiking in the back woods. I just wish people would educate themselves on the reality before they open their mouths.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Zhukov2's profile

Italy may have strong gun laws, but we have the NRA!

January 11, 2011
Click to view Elizabethj48's profile

@Prairieson... I had never heard of the movie you mention so I looked it up.  The actual title was "Death of a President" and was a British independent film from 2006 shown at the Toronto Film Festival and as a mini show in Britain. It was meant to show what might happen if terrorists would kill the US President.  It was NOT a political vehicle of anything stateside.  And yes, Americans did protest it.  So basically what you just did is a "FOX" - misinformation about something you don't really know about because you didn't check the facts.  My father was a journalist and his motto was like a carpenter's motto (measure twice, cut once) - check facts twice from different sources and print once.

January 11, 2011
Click to view rickenbacker's profile

the shooter was a young nazi. i blame the rednecks of arizona.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Buc1959A's profile

Part of what is wrong with America today is a fading sense of accountability, of personal responsibility. Many people, have decided that it is ok to say anything, to do anything, consequences be damned. Politicians are among the worst. Any and everything has become fair in American politics, as long as their party wins.

 

Neither party has the best intrest of the American people at heart. They are only interested in serving themselves and their corprate contributers, not the public, and in so doing the language and tactic's they use has become meaner, cheaper, dirtier.

 

Civil discourse is supposed to be just that, civil. There was a time in this country, not that long ago, when people actually practiced this.

January 11, 2011
Click to view pprty's profile

I'm fed up with the crap Limbaugh (who by the way has a bad set of false teeth), Palin & conservative's have been getting away with attacking everything & everybody in their hateful way under the disguise of religion. I've been fed up for a long time, but this brings it all to a head.The Sheriff is absolutely right - count me as one of the million who agree with him!

January 11, 2011
Click to view L1bertarian's profile

@Biglio

 

umm yea, in Italy, the tough gun laws keep shooting sprees from happening... like the one that happened in ROME two days ago where 4 people were killed... Well, at least the tough gun laws in Italy keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill... oh wait, Italian news reported that the shooter in Rome had a history of mental problems too...

January 11, 2011
Click to view cardenj's profile

Just to show you what can be accomplished - with the likes of fat lard azz rush limbaugh and his fellow imbeciles spewing hate day in day out. eventually they will ignite some nut as they did here.

 

palin- fat rushi, hannity, shmuck levine,are all accomplices in this abomination..

January 11, 2011
Click to view rickenbacker's profile

politics sux

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view rickenbacker's profile

most repubs are cold hearted & greedy

January 11, 2011
Click to view TheEgyptian's profile

These are bizarre days chockfull with peculiar events; these are inexplicable moments in human history; these are madcap times.  The Arizona tragedy does not come as a shock for Americans, have become immune to blows.  A violent culture, a gun-loving nation, a land of turbulence, our America is in chaos.

 

The word confusion is understatement. A people who deem that cigarettes kill people; drugs kill people; abortions kill people; sexual preferences kill people, and alcohol consumptions kill people, BUT GUNS DO NOT KILL PROPLE.  Our inept Republican congress is too quick to regulate our personal lives, to execute convicts some of whom are innocent, but refuses to regulate what really kills us: GUNS. 

 

One cannot find any civilized nation on our planet where regular citizens could easily go to a store and purchase a semi-automatic weapon that can be reloaded in seconds.  The argument that Republicans and their bossy, the NRA, is that “the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed.”  Their reasoning is that people should have the power to fight the government should there be a need.  If so, one wonders why one cannot purchase tanks, F-16s, nukes and atomic weapons, for these are the only arms that can fight the government.  Hence, their argument is a mere joke.   Additionally, one may not bear arms in any government facility, which makes the argument even more preposterous and absurd.

 

How a young 22 year-old man with a history of mental problems and with previous tribulation with the law could purchase such a machine? Authorities are very happy to report that the gun used in the shooting was purchased legally – GREAT, now we are pleased.

 

When will Republicans start thinking straight?  When will they leave our personal lives alone and deal with the real danger that faces us? When will America join the civilized world and ban guns? When will we start grasping that guns DO KILL PEOPLE? This young 22 year-old man is a victim of a government that fails us each time; and his many victims are also casualties of a government that is both confused and confusing; they are willing to go after cigarette manufacturers accusing them of KILLING PEOPLE, but refuse to go after gun makers who are the real killers of people.  GUNS DO KILL PEOPLE.  They are made for that purpose and no other.

 

Dr. Sabri Bebawi

Professor/Author

January 11, 2011
Click to view mfred's profile

I wonder how soon republicans capitalize on this tragedy by making a play for her congressional seat....I.E., lawsuits against current laws protecting her seat while she recovers etc.

January 11, 2011
Click to view newporter's profile

denhy, I agree with you except it isn't CNN or the reporters who you should be ashamed of but that fat ton of hate named Limbaugh you should be embarrassed about.  It's his job, I know, but you'd think he'd have the class to tone it down just a little bit. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Elizabethj48's profile

@The Egyptian - Well said.  Thank you.

January 11, 2011
Click to view clavat's profile

Mental Health

 

Clearly the culprit in this case is the perpetrator's mental health.  Stop spilling ink about the various political attention-mongers.   Instead raise awareness about the availability of mental health treatment for people.  There are some marvelous psychotropic medicines out there that help schizophrenics live peacefully among us.  Let's focus on improving our national mental health treatment system to prevent future incidents.

 

Banning guns, building prisons and silencing the fear and hate mongers on the Right won't prevent mass slaughter, only effective mental health treatment has a good chance of preventing this sort of tragedy.

January 11, 2011
Click to view JohnRJohnson's profile

The reason this mass murder occurred is NOT because of Republican's routine use of violent metaphors, such as "Don't retreat. Re-load" or "voters should be armed and dangerous". Those are unfortunate choices of words, but they are not responsible for the kind of paranoia and anger that may have pushed this lunatic over the edge. What contributed to this assassination is the right-wing's constant demonizing of government and use of phrases like "government take-over" and "destroying our freedoms". It began with "paling around with terrorists" and "death panels", then escalated to talk about the President being a Muslim who wasn't born in this country. Finally, we have political pundits like Glenn Beck who conflate religious fanaticism with reactionary ideology. The resulting stew creates an environment that feeds paranoia, fear and extreme mistrust of the government. Loughner may have been a homicidal psychopath and schizophrenic, but he was getting a daily diet of misinformation and wild accusations that could have easily pushed him over the edge. Something triggered his decision to act out. He bought his gun in November, not long after the election. There is probably a connection.

January 11, 2011
Click to view GARED's profile

Just the "FACTS" sheriff.  We don't need your political views.

January 11, 2011
Click to view EcoBob's profile

Obviously, first you have to have a gun, but then even more importantly first you would have to have the opportunity to use the gun and use it without hurting innocent bystanders.  There very well may have been member(s) of that very crowd with carry permits and carrying a weapon.  We don't know that and we may never know that information. However we do know that given the chance those people did take advantage of the opportunity they did get and stepped up and resolved the incident - and without further injury.  This last point is especially important to individuals who possess that controversial gun permit.  We just don't want to be left without recourse if an incident such as this catches up with us.  As a CCW permit holder I can say taht we all are glad this young man was not harmed or killed during this episode. We don't want anyone harmed or killed in the first place.  Now with this young man alive and in custody we can best get the motive for his rampage and that is the symptom that needs to be addressed. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view nogimmick's profile

It's time the Rightwingers did some soul searching ... their vision for a 'wild west' America will only succeed in creating more hate-mongers and racists ... this what they want?

January 11, 2011
Click to view Amunaka's profile

Okay I'm seeing this guy was a liberal ..and that Caitie Parker was a close friend of his who hasn't seen Loughner since 2007...who is Caitie Parker...I've read her tweets cause their all over the right wing blogoshere echo chamber ..saw her briefly on MSNBC Sunday she said he was a political activist ..has she been on fox yet where's the follow up to what she tweeted ...has she been on any talk shows yet...again who is Caitie Parker...

January 11, 2011
Click to view kana60's profile

It's not the weapon of choice an indivual uses to cause death and destruction. the problem is that the individual made the choice.

Had Jared Loughner chosen to drive a car into the crowd there would be no out cry to ban automobiles. If he placed a bomb in the shopping plaza there would be no outcry to ban the materials he may have used to build the device.

The problem appears he may be mentaly unstable. However with out being diagnosed his condition wouldn't show up in a back ground check.

as it is anyone can and do make claims regarding others mental capacity. However this is something that should not be taken lightly. And those making false claims should be held accountable as well.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ronski820's profile

Crime - murder

He committed it - beyond reasonable doubt

Punishment - execution

What's the problem and what are you waiting for???

January 11, 2011
Click to view jspain's profile

@Biglio

 

In Italy for most of recent history your nation has been more often than not ruled by the iron fists of despots and dictators. In Italy strong gun laws have long attempted to deny people the right to bear arms. In the United States for over two centuries we have enjoyed a successful democracy, including the right to bear arms, and the power lies in the hands of the citizenry. Even my 2 year old can see the difference.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Byrd8's profile

How many times are apologists going to refer the the quote, "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun...”

 

Nobody threatened anyone with a knife in Tucson, but more than one person, by their own admission, did bring a gun to that meeting and one of them used his.

 

You logic is pathetic and devoid of any signs of true humanity.  I truly feel sorry for all of you who feel you must live by the gun, or as you so cynically refer to it now:  the 2nd Amendment Remedy.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view burniee's profile

LDRP

Are you serious.  You think the 50s, 60s, and 70s were much more civil than now??  Wow, when were you born, yesterday.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Wonderbar's profile

You know it's easy to get caught up in all this discussion and for tempers to flare. I had to re-write this post. I had gotten initially sucked into it myself. It's kind of interesting to me that lots of folks think that Arizona is still the wild west with everyone carrying a six gun on their hip. Personally I choose not to carry my firearm in public. I wonder what might have happened if one or more of these people didn't leave their firearm locked in the glovebox or leave it at home because of the stipulation put on armed citizens? Especially around Government Officials? You see, the crazy guy felt no remorse or fear of it, but a responsible citizen might hesitate because someone yells "GUN!" even when it's holstered? I would have thought that they had Secret Service around them? At least a rent-a-cop? No.

If you want to change something, what should be changed is the accountability. I don't know how to track it but possibly make phychotic patients be accounted for by their doctors? Oh that's right, he didn't have a doctor, no one spoke up in the beginning, no one exposed this guy as a risk. Maybe that's the real problem?

January 11, 2011
Click to view hasc's profile

I am watching the political reaction with great apprehension. We need to watch out for attempts to exploit this event to gain a political upper hand.  Let's recall that a lone gunman killing a political figure started World War I.  The forces that drive history must not be considered extinct because we live in a more modern world. It is not beyond the realm of possibility for adverse political reactions to lead to more widespread violence.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Marky61's profile

The shooter was a leftie? I don't think Americans even know right from left. What hasn't been widely reported is that Giffords was the first Jewish woman from Arizona to be elected to Congress, and the gunman was a fan of Mein Kampf. Looking at his police photo today, he certainly looks like a skinhead. Neo-Nazis are hard RIGHT wing extremists. Don't try to pin it on the left - which, of course, is what Fox News will do incessantly. And most Americans will believe unquestioningly.

January 11, 2011
Click to view jspain's profile

My heart goes out to the families of the victims. This was a senseless tragedy. However, anyone who believes that this sort of tragedy is somehow unique to this nation or this particular time in history is grossly uninformed. Murder is committed around the globe daily, often on a far more sickening scale than here. As for the fear that we are somehow descending away from civility...pick up a history book.

January 11, 2011
Click to view mbez1's profile

Bottom Line:

If someone wants to trade their life or their freedom for the rest of their life, they can do a ton of damage.

Hard Lesson Learned:

Gov't officials cannot congregate in unsecured locations.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Davox's profile

I will say it again, this is all the Product of the so called "Tea"rrorist Party Movement founded by the former Alaska governor Palin. Shame on you Palin! Look what u have done!

January 11, 2011
Click to view Busted2010's profile

Why should anyone apologize to Rush? At what point do we hold him accountable for what he says.

January 11, 2011
Click to view mjd1811's profile

Awesome.  Another example of "gun free zone" laws doing the job.  I used to have a concealed carry permit prior to joining law enforcement.  Political rallies/events were one of the many places you could not carry.  Brilliant idea.  I am sick of the weenies who bemoan guns after tragedies like these.  The sheep (average citizens) will always get attacked by the wolves (bad guys) of society.  Yet, you continue to rely on the sheepdogs (cops) to protect you. Protect yourselves and get your heads our of the sand.  And yes, ban guns.  That will work. Criminals always get guns and Mexico prohibits gun ownership.  Working great there.  Morons.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Sophiecat's profile

Please, PLEASE remember that this young man has parents also, loved ones, and they are truly devastated.  They know their son will die in prison now.  He's very sick, so sick that likely he will be unable to participate in his own defense, he cannot recognize reality.  Can he recognize right from wrong?  Not the way you and I can recognize right from wrong.  His brain is not well.  He has a not-well brain.  He's not "cold", he's not "evil", he's not "unfeeling".  He feels!  He feels, deeply, and he is a very sick young man.  He must be punished for what he did, but please, PLEASE!  Do NOT punish him for being ill.  And he is very, VERY ill. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Elizabethj48's profile

@kana60

 

Yes, it is the weapon of choice.  If he had not had access to a gun he most likely could not have killed and wounded as many people as he did.

 

1) a car - most car rammings have only killed up to 4 people, and they definitely don't happen as easily as guns.  The student at Virginia Tech could not have killed 32 & injured 20 people with a car.  And yes, we do take car licenses away from people who use them improperly.

2) a bomb - yes, very deadly, but again, not as easy to use and many of the materials would be hard to acquire.

3) a knife my addition - hard to stab & kill 6 people in a crowd like he was in.  Someone would have him down pretty quickly.

 

Mental Health issue - yes, absolutely something that needs to be addressed on a broader basis.

 

But you talk about "banning" guns.  Get real, no one here is refuting the right to own a gun, but we are saying that we need to have tighter controls on who can have/own one.  We have to renew car licenses and take a test in the process.  The same should be done for guns.

January 11, 2011
Click to view MrWest83's profile

Everyone keeps asking "why didn't the school do something?"  The school has thousands of students and can't be expected to look after each one individually.  Instead, people should be asking "where the f*** were the parents of this psycho? Why didn't they get their mentally unstable son help?"  I don't care who you are, if your kid is this screwed up and you don't do anything, you're just as accountable for the harm he causes as he is. And if you don't realize your kid has deep mental issues by the time he's 22, you obviously don't care enough to be involved in his life, and you shouldn't have kids in the first place. Loughner's parents created a monster and unleashed him on the world--they should be locked up with him.  If anything, this incident should be a referendum against the uninvolved, narcissistic parents we have raising kids today.  WAKE UP, PARENTS.  How about you actually get involved and PARENT your kids??  I'm so sick of the media putting blame everywhere but the place where it belongs.

January 11, 2011
Click to view MarkedW's profile

I pray for those wounded & killed and their families. And for us when I read postings such as a Palin Facebook "friend" who wrote on that page that it we shouldn't worry too much about the young girl who was killed because she would have grown up to be a liberal.

 

We have a long way to go.

January 11, 2011
Click to view DamnYank's profile

there is a connection between her death and the fact that she was born on 9/11.

 

she was born on a day when terrorists attacked this country and died when a terrorist attacked and killed her.

 

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

@the Egyptian, you are stupid. Guns don't kill people, idiots with guns do. How many guns do you own? have you ever even fired a gun? I am 16 and i own 2 rifles. I have never felt the need to shoot someone. Just because you own a gun does not mean you are going to kill someone with it. Illegally obtained guns are the ones that are used to kill people, and I do understand that the gun used in this crime was legal, but he was also insane. law abiding gun toting citizens are not the one killing people. Outlawing guns would not work because then people that are law abiding wouldnt be able to defend themselves, the cops cant respond fast enough and what thug is going to let you call the cops, the only way to defend yourself is to pack heat and by making guns illegal, like drugs, people will still find ways to get them and use them for the wrong reasons and illegally.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

Dr. Sabri Bebawi, I disagree with several of your lines of logic. 

 

"Our inept Republican congress is too quick to regulate our personal lives, to execute convicts some of whom are innocent, but refuses to regulate what really kills us: GUNS." 

 

Well what really kills us according to the CDC is:

Heart disease: 616,067

Cancer: 562,875

Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952

Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924

Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706

Alzheimer's disease: 74,632

Diabetes: 71,382

Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448

Septicemia: 34,828

 

Hmmm...no guns whatsoever.  Maybe we should be legislating food content, mandating exercise, and spending more on cancer cures.

 

Then you said: "one wonders why one cannot purchase tanks, F-16s, nukes and atomic weapons, for these are the only arms that can fight the government." 

 

Tell that to the Iraqis, Afghanis, North Vietnamese, the IRA, the Palistinians and every other guerilla/terrorist group in history.  They seem to create plenty of resistance with basic guns and explosives.

 

Then you say:" One cannot find any civilized nation on our planet where regular citizens could easily go to a store and purchase a semi-automatic weapon that can be reloaded in seconds."

 

We can argue the definition of civility, but your "uncivilized countries" must then include:

- Switzerland

- Finland

- Greece

- Canada

- Austria

- Germany

- Norway

- Sweden

- New Zealand

 

For having a post-graduate degree, you sure seem to have trouble assembling defensible statements!

January 11, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

@liz actually you are wrong Louisiana already makes you pass a test of proficiency to a state approved instructor to get a permit to carry, yet they have the highest gun homicide rate.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

and to add to my previous post guns werent invented with the purpose to kill people. like knives swords, axes, hammers, and bows. guns were invented for defense and as tools

January 11, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

and you can purchase a tank or f-16 if you have the money.

January 11, 2011
Click to view terre08's profile

@jspain

 

There are other countries than Italy with stricter gun laws that have not been ruled by a despot which in Italy's case was not that long of a period assuming you mean Mussolini. Even though these things occasionally happen in other countries they are pale in comparison how often it happens and has happened here in the US.

There are also other countries with fairly high number of weapons per capita like Switzerland and Sweden where these things are very rare. There are however no other country that has anything remotely comparable to the NRA and where weapons are praised so highly.

January 11, 2011
Click to view abidingdude's profile

More Americans have died in car accidents since Saturday than died in this single incident in Tucson.  Where's the outrage?  Where's the outpouring of emotion and support to those family members who have lost loved ones? 

 

We're more accustomed to death than we'd like to admit.  We only get fired up about the tragedy we see in the headlines.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Nunya's profile

Stop already with the uninformed opionions of what "triggered" this idiot.  Let's see the connections before the blame train leaves the station.  It is disgraceful that so many are using this tragedy to push their political agendas.

January 11, 2011
Click to view billybill1's profile

Who has more angry rhetoric that Jack Cafferty or Keith Oberman. Oberman has the Worst person in the World segment on his show every night. What's more devicive than that!

January 11, 2011
Click to view TheEgyptian's profile

@ditzmiester1

 

You are 16 and you own 2 riles; bravo my polite friend.  Real rational men need neither guns to prove their manhood nor use insults to argue.  You asked how many guns I own; none - no need my 16 year-old friend.  Now I ask you: How many civilized countries have you visited? How many books, besides the bible, have you read? Do not answer that; your message provides answers.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Tekmage's profile

We need to stop focusing on the tool used by this person to kill.  This is a person with obvious mental issues - we should be asking how we missed it when even his school had tossed him out until he could prove by doctors note that he was not a danger to himself or others. 

 

We need the media and politics to stop the smokescreen about the gun and address why this person was not identified as having problmes and given the help he needed.  The gun was just the tool, it could have just as easily been a car driven into the crowed or an IED he made. . .

 

To stop this in the future we need to get people like this the help they need before they snap.

January 11, 2011
Click to view hycobob's profile

Violence in America is fear based. We have no more guns, violent movies, ethnic diversity than Canada and many other non-violent countries. The difference between the US and these more peaceful countries is the fear tactics used by American media to promote viewership, and particularly the disgraceful embellishments and misrepresentations of truth by one Fox News. I don't care which party is spreading the rhetoric - it just needs to stop, NOW! Americans need to stand up against malicious propeganda by turning off their television sets or changing the channel! "Bowling for Columbine" says it all without really even saying it. Watch with an open mind.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

EcoBob, one of the men...Joe Zamudio...who was among those who held the shooter on the ground DID have a Concealed Carry permit and WAS armed at the time of the incident.  It doesn't surprise me that he was prudent, noticed that the attacker was on the ground, and chose to leave his gun in it's holster.  That's the kind of sound judgement most CHL-holders, myself included, tend to have.  While we are armed, I think we all tend to view using that gun as an absolute last resort.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Elizabethj48's profile

@ditzmeister:

 

you said

"and to add to my previous post guns werent invented with the purpose to kill people. like knives swords, axes, hammers, and bows. guns were invented for defense and as tools."

 

Ah, how foolish are the young.  Of course guns were invented to kill people.  What do call "defense"?  All of the things you mention were created as tools - to hunt, to fell, to whittle, to build - but all of them were also used by individuals and armies to attack and kill.  You don't need a glock to kill a deer for food.  Stop the denial.  TheEgyptian is correct; you are not.  When you are 35 and a parent, talk to me again.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

terre08, I think you've made a valuable point indavertently.  Gun violence is more of a problem of culture than the availability of guns themselves.  There are NUMEROUS countries that allow for households to have guns, and who have household gun ownership rates higher than the U.S., but with much less related violence.  Let's focus on the cultural issues that are pushing individuals over the edge of sane behavior.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Agrado's profile

So shootings rarely happen in other countries right? And how often do we view the local news of European, Asian, African, South American, and Middle Eastern countries? This shooting was widely covered because of the things that made it significant. The "petty" shootings happening right now in Detroit, Los Angeles, Atlanta, NYC, Boston, etc aren't likely to make our national news because they happen so often right? Perhaps this is also the case in other parts of the world? I doubt every shooting makes national or international news. So while the contrast is there, perhaps it isn't as stark as many people like to believe.

January 11, 2011
Click to view InCuse's profile

stop all the right-wing/left-wing arguing already! it's already been proven that he didn't belong to one party or another.  This was a nut-job that didn't like one party or another more or less -- he didn't like government at all! Stop trying to blame the left, the right, or the middle -- he did this on his own, founded by his own ramblings and thoughts.  Whether he was nuts or sane, it doesn't really matter, the fact is that he was a man with a vendetta against the government and it's public servants.  And he was going to carry out his plan, killing any man, woman, child, republican, democrat, asian, black, white, hispanic, catholic, protestant, jewish, hindu, person in his wake, not because he hated any one of them, or defined himself as any one of them, but because he believed it was him against the government as a whole.  This is a tragedy, especially the 9-year old girl, and with people commenting with so much hatred and placing blame on different parties, it's just as bad as this young man killing others.  Stop it already!  You're just adding fuel to the fire!  This is a tragedy where the only blame that should be placed is on the killer himself. and that's it.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

ditzmiester1 says: "Louisiana already makes you pass a test of proficiency to a state approved instructor to get a permit to carry, yet they have the highest gun homicide rate."

 

I'm afraid you are creating a fallacy in logic here.  Your unstated presumtion is that those who pass a proficiency test are the same individuals who are committing gun homicides.  This is simply incorrect thinking.  In Texas, where statistical data is published, CHL-holders are ONE SEVENTH as likely to commit serious crimes compared to non-CHL-holders.  Feel free to view the Texas Department of Public Safety website for yourself.

January 11, 2011
Click to view zippy335's profile

The problem is that Democrats and liberals will reflect on their speech and rhetoric, but Republicans, tea partiers and the right wing radio shockers will not. So the call to "tone it down" will only be heard by those who don't really need to hear it, and ignored by those who really do need to tone it down.

January 11, 2011
Click to view PatinMadison's profile

These issues are not mutually exclusive and we do not have to pick only one to solve.

We need to find a better way to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally ill individuals

We need to restore civility to our polictical debate. I really do not care who said what first, last or most. It has to stop.

I agree wholeheartedly that political rhetoric cannot have caused this tragedy. A mentally unhinged man with a firearm caused this tragedy. But the mere fact that the rhetoric issue jumped into the forefront of our minds immedediately after this incident shows how much it has been bothering us. My only caution is that we not overstate the case for civility. Civility cannot prevent insanity....it just makes it easier to spot.

January 11, 2011
Click to view na73x's profile

@ditzmiester1

 

Sorry, P'taK, you CANNOT buy an F-16 or any other piece of current military hardware. And check your history, guns were invented solely to kill people; hunting with said firearms was an afterthought due to wild innacuracy. The early guns, hand held cannons, actually, were devised as anti-armor weapons. Your NRA-induced revisionist history is failing you ...

January 11, 2011
Click to view ejb4501's profile

FINALLY, a leader who is SEIZING the moment to call America's attention to the dangerous path we are on, should we keep going down the road of vitriol.

 

And what too many people simply don't get  is that it makes NO difference what this madman's political affiliation is or precisely what his motivation was. The

POINT is, there are a lot of crazy S.O.B.'s out there that need only the slightest provocation, the mere suggestion of a target, and they will go after it.  EVEN IF

THE VITRIOL HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS HEINOUS CRIME - and I think it did - it is absolutely RIGHT for Sheriff Dupnik to speak up. Because the hate speech

may have not been a motivation today, but it could very well be tomorrow.

 

PLEASE, do not cave, Sheriff Dupnik! You are on the side of GOOD. And GOOD must win in these perilous times we live in...

January 11, 2011
Click to view spartanrob's profile

This tragedy is a direct result of the hateful discourse by Palin,

Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, Tea Party, Right-wing Republicans, etc.

Lock and load, revolution, and comments that their political opponents

are trying to destroy America are all phrases used by these lunatics

that incite hatred, violence, disrespect for the office of the

President, and discrimination.  God save the USA and the President

from these Palin crazies.   Pray for the Giffords, other victims of

this attack on America, true American patriots, and for a return to

respectful political discourse without personal attacks.

January 11, 2011
Click to view TheEgyptian's profile

@LexLonghorn

 

 

Dear Friend

 

I respect your gracious disagreement. 

 

Don’t you think that diseases are a different matter altogether?

Don’t you think that the ability of rogue countries to purchase such weapons does not in anyway correlate to regular American citizens purchasing machine guns?

Don’t you know that Switzerland, being the system that it is, requires male citizens from the age of twenty to keep ARMY_ISSUED PERSONNEL WEAPONS? After the period of service ends, the rifle is sent to the weapons factory where the fully automatic function is removed.

Don’t you know that in Finland firearm permits are issued for hunting weapons only? Don’t you know in Greece Applicants for a gun owner’s license are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, hunting and/or target shooting?

Don’t you know that in Canada guns cannot be purchased for self-defense? 

Don’t you know that Austria, Germany allow ownership for only airsoft-guns which are toy-guns? 

 

So, now, are we civilized in terms of the “civility” you referenced?

 

Don’t you think that cigarettes do not kill, smokers do? Drugs don’t kill, users do? Cars don’t kill, drivers do? Then why are these regulated but gun ownership is not?

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Password999's profile

Religion, politics, poverty and wealth, police and government corruption- those things make us no different from any other country. We as a country are ripe for a revolution and it may be in this lifetime where FARC or IRA like operatives live in remote areas of Colorado and engage in more assassinations and attempts, secular violence, and domestic terrorism. Imagine the county sheriff who will not respond to certain remote areas because of these extremist groups? Not because of the dangers they pose –but because they have decided to un-unite that piece of the United States based on beliefs, objectives and causes. Bombings (maybe not a suicide type) at Chapel Hills can be probable – it happens in Israel, Ireland, and other parts of the world with a high degree of frequency; why are we any different? We have religious impediments and other various contrasting beliefs and in some instances, we even exhibit more passion, anger, frustration than they do in Israel, that is disturbing– it is just a matter of time before more will pull the trigger or push the detonator. Foreclosures? Because of the privileged in society who had a thirst for greed that forced many out of their own homes –how is that different from the West Bank settlements in Gaza? The police show up at the door with firearms and tell you that you must leave. We have racial tension much the same way we saw in the former Yugoslavia between the Serbs, Croats, and Muslims – how is this different from White, Brown, or Black tension right here in the USA? We have a genocide occurring 10 hours south of Colorado Springs in Juarez yet we are glued to Afghanistan and places in Africa (where all of the overpaid celebrities focus their attention to except Lohan and Hilton) yet Mexico may have seen more violent deaths in recent months than Sudan. We also feel like when we do not win a vote we need to revolt. Take the Tea Party who is going to take back America - I would like to know what this plan entails by the Tea Party and will it result in violence? I have a feeling it will. Maybe it is the pharmaceutical companies who lobby the politicians we elect (pay big dollars) for their vote, which may or may not reflect the interest of the people who elected them in the first place – anti medical marijuana votes – I don’t know just saying. I do know whatever will win them the next term is how most will vote. However, the worst of all is those of us that pay taxes to a government that only enforces penalties and prison time for those that try to cheat. Yet so many don’t even play the game such as organized crime syndicates, illegal immigrants, the rich who can invest extra money into tax shelters but for the poor it means you don’t eat for a month. That is frustrating for most – why even play? Homeland Security – everything will be in the name of Homeland Security to keep the status quo with the majority - but why keep things they way they are? The very thing that needs to change. So, you ask will we see more violence. I think that is a simple answer. Yes.

January 11, 2011
Click to view pongadae's profile

There are a dangerous number of unemployed men with guns out there who will not just quietly fade away simply because corporate 'America' has decided it can get cheaper labor elsewhere with a few well placed bribes to congress. There is nothing more stabilizing than a job to someone living on the edge. There is nothing more infuriating than to confront absolute hopelessness in the same mind. Most of these gun outrages targeting strangers are committed by the unemployed or those recently terminated.

January 11, 2011
Click to view alinayani's profile

I blame people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity for this. All they ever talk about is how to bring down our President and always talk about violence and how everything that democrats do is wrong. They should really decide whehter they like a country where the majority of the people have elected a democrat to to be the president, and if they don't like it then they should leave this country.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ArmdDadof4's profile

To our Italian friend and anyone else that thinks taking away guns will stop the violence.  Criminals will ALWAYS find guns.  They do not care if they break the laws.  Want to know some of the most dangerous places to live that have high murder and violent crime rates? Washington D.C., New York, Chicago, Detroit, all of these places have some of the strictest gun laws in America and yet the murders and crimes still happen. England outlawed guns years ago, and they have had problems with stabbings on the rise.  And if you don't think people with swords or knives can cause problems for multiple people, recall what was going on in China the last couple of years.  Multiple children were stabbed and some people beheaded by an unstable person with a BLADE.  Derranged people and criminals will always find weapons to do their work, they always have.  Treat the problem not the tools

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

Dr. Bebawi,

 

I do not assume that diseases are differnet.  Tobacco kills in the same manner as guns.  Unhealthy food is similar, as are drugs.  People make poor choices that hurt themselves and others.  Only the drama of the event separates a shooting from these other causes of death.  Second-hand smoke, poor driving, use of poisons, etc. will take the life of others just as surely, but much more quietly.

 

Americans cannot legally purchase "machine guns" in the same manner as semi-automatic firearms.  There is a significant difference between the two items.

 

Yes, I am familiar with the laws of Switzerland and the other countries we are discussing.  You only make my point...that gun possession in and of itself is not the problem.  It's how the gun is used that matters.  And in Canada guns can absolutely be used for self-defense.  You are also incorrect regarding Austria and Germany.  As for Greece, it does not take much imagination to find a valid reason to obtain a legal firearm.

 

I do understand your perspective here, but I wish to see greater insistance on personal accountability.  I do not believe our gun crime laws are harsh enough.  I do not believe guns should be as easily available as they are today.  I think the Brady Bill was mostly sensible legislation that should be restored.  I believe that tobacco users should not be treated by Medicare/medicaid.  I do not think that illegal drug users should be allowed to receive government benefits.  All Americans should be responsible for their choices, and should suffer the result of poor decisions.  Banning guns does not increase individual responsibilty, it abdicates responsibility to others.  Perhaps we can agree that there should simply be greater requirements in place.

January 11, 2011
Click to view kingsolomon3's profile

Guns are the problem - period. Only in America does this happen of a regular basis.

January 11, 2011
Click to view BlueLucy's profile

This tragedy is clearly not a case of left-wing or right-wing politics or rhetoric. Jared was an anti-Semite, according to the web sites he frequented, and the congresswoman was Jewish. Secondly, he disliked her because she wouldn't answer his mystical question -- which happened a couple of years ago. Jared was NOT a Republican and didn't even vote! Enough with the partisanship blame game!

January 11, 2011
Click to view TheEgyptian's profile

@ExLonghorn

 

It is becoming evident that we are in agreement, then.  I have no dispute or disagreement with any of  what you have written above.  I am glad we reached the same page.  I was more glad to read your piece: "I think the Brady Bill was mostly sensible legislation that should be restored."  Thank you for the constructive dialogue.

 

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view AndyDallas's profile

Now, I'm real happy for some of y'all that you live in countries where you feel so safe and protected.

 

I'm just wondering how many of the folks here realize that we gun-folks want our firearms in order to protect ourselves and our families because... believe it or not, the police here in the US are under NO OBLIGATION TO PROTECT US. So says the US Supreme Court.

 

See Warren v. DC as one example, as well as DeShaney v. Winnebago County and Castle Rock v. Gonzales

 

"WASHINGTON, June 27 2005 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"

 

I don't care if you're from the Left or from the Right - what matters is that we retain the right and the ability to be able to protect our families - because the police, god bless 'em, are not obligated to do it.

January 11, 2011
Click to view captbeefhart's profile

There are lots of people who know Jared Loughner is a nut case - listen to what his former professors and classmates say. And I'm nowhere near defending him with my comments.

 

But where does it go on your "Permanent Record" that, as a nut case, you should not have access to a gun?  Who keeps this data and how is it accessed? Background checks currently have no where to look for this info.

 

At what level of odd behavior should a person be deemed unworthy of gun posession?  It's dangerous be declared unfit by laypeople who are unqualified to make the assessment - e.g., I wouldn't want it on my permanent record just because my ex-wife and her minions said it was so.

 

What happens after the mental illness declaration?  I.e., what rights are violated?  Do the mind police come search your house for incriminating evidence?  At this point your guilty of a crime you haven't committed, but may commit. Is this OK in our country?

 

What if you turn out to be a harmless genius of some sort, or just incapable of operating machinery (medicine bottle reference for those who need help)?  Would you have any recourse for the property search and social stigma?  Would you also (or still) be included on the do-not-sell-to list?

 

The "you-cant-own-a-gun-'cause-your-a-whack-job" vision would lead to even more government intrusion into our lives if for no other reason than to make it work effectively.  The need for the mind police, the Permanent Record Database, court cases to debate a person's true value to society, etc.

 

No doubt many people would take up arms when the National Permanent Record Database were established to track lunatics.  Hey, since we now have a database, let's start keeping other data on other people.  Hey, wait, we can track other stuff!  And so on, and so on, until everyone has a permanent record...  1984 anyone?

 

On yeah, we have to provide the gun shops with technical support to verify a puchaser's worthiness.

 

Logistically and infrastructurally it's unwieldy at best.  Morally it's abhorrent.  But hey, it would create jobs.

 

There are many other topics that also affect this debate, e.g., when is a religious zealot (David Koresh)a whack job that shouldn't have guns?  What about people like Timothy McVey?  He did damage without guns, yet was obviously a nut case.  What about anyone who rents a U-Haul van?  But I digress...

 

Rather than make more rules that are difficult to enforce and administratively error prone for special cases (convicted felons, the mentally ill, etc.), everyone should be subject to the same rules. Then we all can deal with the consequences together.

 

FWIW: I'm from Tucson, and I'm left-of-center (but not extreme) when it comes to gun ownership.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ZekeMM's profile

In response to the question of why there was no response from the legal concealed carry people at the time. The law puts the responsibility of where the bullet lands on the shooter. Considering that there were people all around, that you also did not know who was shooting or what was going on at the time and the real possibility that someone might think you were the shooter and get shot yourself by responding Law Enforcement, to not immediately draw and open fire was the proper and correct response. All CCL (conceal carry licensee) are aware of the awesome responsibility that are given to us and hence discretion is the better part of valor. If the shooter was not tackled and a clear shot was there and no one was available to take him down, be certain that someone might have well shot him.

To those that blame guns as the cause, I never saw a gun hurt anyone by itself. To blame guns alone is like blaming the car for a drunken driver killing someone. If you say ban guns cause we don't need em, then I say ban Corvettes and all high performance sports cars cause we don't need to go 160mph to get from Point A to Point B. Those who think firearm ownership should be banned are naive to think that will solve the problem.

January 11, 2011
Click to view jackgotney's profile

To drive a Corvette you have to pass a driver's test, and have a license, and all vehicles have to be licensed and registered. Same should be for guns. Maybe this guy would not pass the very strict and difficult sanity test which should be required as part of acquiring a license. Semis should be banned. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view jackgotney's profile

I have identified another nut like this Jared guy. He posts on the Yahoo message board for stock symbol NVEC currently as  Edvirtual1868 (is one of his many aliases). He wants to take out certain members of the Bush family and some of his political associates and other politicians. also has posted about destroying Centcom- hates Jews, and bankers, and especially America. He lives in Windsor Ontario and his name is Ed Klinard. has posted multiple times about torturing and chopping up bodies, putting them in bags etc.. leaving stumps behind. His posts are erratic and can be very violent as at times he seems to have a deathwish for the whole world.  I reported him to the local police and they actually did confiscate one or more guns, rifles from his little arsenal. Anyway he is still on the loose and posting obseessively on the Yahoo. Good luck! I hope neither you nor I ever encounter him!  These are posts from one of his more recent aliases. Would feel better if he were locked up.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Carol66's profile

Another reason to take FOX off the air.

January 11, 2011
Click to view mofekka's profile

Guns will never be banned in the United States.

Too many people are married to their guns and hunting,   which in my opinion is fine.

More control over who can purchase a firearm is necessary in my opinion.  It might have prevented this tragedy.

The vitriol from both sides should stop.  Its quite possible the Palins, Becks, Limbaughs of the world and their speak could instigate other mentally ill people, and quite possibly fueled the fire in Jared's twisted brain, or maybe not but thats beside the point.

To outright blame these right-wing speakers of hate is taking it too far.  Should they realize their speak can and will inflame those who might not be able to clearly think for themselves?  YES!!  They should, and hopefully this tragedy and outpouring of emotion might cause people, left and right, who speak with hate, vitriol, lies and half-truths to think twice.  Most likely it won't.  Some of these people generate massive income based on their rhetoric.  I've thought myself, all I need to do is spew far right ideology with strong christian values and I too can make millions.  People can be very sheep like and blindly follow.  I digress, bottom line here, in my opinion, is more needs to be done to control who can get firearms, what kind of firearms can be purchased with proper licensing and training.  I like the idea of a training/safety course along with a license, to be renewed yearly. More needs to be done to corral mentally ill people and get them the help they need.  And more needs to be done to reign in the hate speak coming from either left or right wingers.

 

If pushing the agenda's weren't the top priority, perhaps meeting in the middle might be easier.

Its very sad what happened.  It will be sadder that most likely nothing will change because of it.  Corporations have too much control in this country.  Politicians are needing to get re-elected and campaigning is how that works.  Campaigning costs LOTS of money.  Where does this money come from? Hmmmmm

last but not least

campaign finance reform and term limits.

that will serve the country better than anything else above all.  In my opinion.

 

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Whammy's profile

This will mean The End for the Tea Party, Sarah Palin once and for all. Good riddance!

January 11, 2011
Click to view thegentleman's profile

Take Faux Noise off the air? Can't be done. Besides, that would just allow conservatives to claim the title of 'victim.' Just change the channel or turn Faux Noise off.

January 11, 2011
Click to view AbsoluteGr8's profile

There should be strict gun law in this country. what is the guarantee that a normal person with the gun will not become a maniac to go on rampage?

THINK ! when one of your own get shoot down in such massacre, you will know the importance of it.

January 11, 2011
Click to view pohlmacs's profile

Because of my experience growing up with someone having mental illness, I feel very strongly about this issue and that people really need a better understanding of how to prevent tragedies like this based on our reactions to situations and signs.  Mental illness may be hard to understand, but needs proper and serious attention and improvement in this country and in the medical community.  We mishandle almost every case.   It wasn't political ads, it wasn't rhetoric.  We likely have an unstable person who was excluded from groups to protect themselves,  but not given the real help that he truly needed to protect everyone. Wake up, America!

January 11, 2011
Click to view meb777's profile

Hate brings hate and violents bring more of the same,America had no idea that this was going to happen, wake up government ,never

heard of so much hate in politic in my life time

January 11, 2011
Click to view RedRooster's profile

Conservatives ... you better call an all hands on deck meeting to rein in your Boy ... Rep. Peter King.  He has uttered a full 4 sentences without using the words "Obama" and "socialism" ... and horror of horrors is talking of introducing gun legislation.  Better get RL, Hannity, Beck and Sarah to fire up the Bubbas, Billiebobs, Jethros, and Ellie Mays ... that the "Guv'mint" is comin to take em. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view ArmdDadof4's profile

To TheEgyptian-

 

My friend youa re correct, the countries you listed do not allow citizens to defend themselves with firearms.  The difference with the U.S. is we have a legal document that is the "Supreme Law of the Land" that in its Bill of Rights lists a garunteed right to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed.  You see our little start up country defeated one of the greatest militaries in the world (England) to gain our independence.  Switzerland and Finland has let every country in the world just about run them over and occupy them.  Gee, I wonder if their citizens wished they had guns when the Nazis were burning their towns to the ground.  Nope, the USA is hated by the world until that country needs them.  Then they beg us to come give relief and help them.  If you don't like us don't ask for our help or our money.

January 11, 2011
Click to view mutater8's profile

funny how the liberals always talk about the "hateful rhetoric" from the right. liberals are ten times worse about spewing off hateful rhetoric than conservatives are. you people start the rhetoric and the right fires back.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Prediction's profile

It doesn't matter to me what any poll says. I know Palin put a Gun Sight on this woman's face and I know she told a lie about that being a Gun Sight. I know Palin LIED to Seniors, telling them that this Congresswoman and their President had created Death Panels when they had NOT. To me I just do not see how anyone can be any immoral than that... Did this Crazy man use that as a reason? We really don't know for sure yet but it does NOT decrease the Immoral Actions of Palin or anyone else at FOX.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view mofekka's profile

@mutater8

I'm liberal and I quote myself

 

"They should, and hopefully this tragedy and outpouring of emotion might cause people, left and right, who speak with hate, vitriol, lies and half-truths to think twice."

 

Its both sides.  I think its just that Palin, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and their ilk get more air time and press coverage.

January 11, 2011
Click to view filneumonic's profile

What a tragic situation to have this happen to a person who was identified by Sara Palin's Cross Hairs.  I guess killing Carabou isnt enough for Sara Palin she has the never ending need to vent her hatered towards human beings aswell.

January 11, 2011
Click to view DrJohn1's profile

The focus needs to stay on the innocent people killed & injured and the psychotic unstable young man who fixated on the congresswomen and committed this horrible act.  He was a disturbed individual that was not associated with either party, a registered independent.  It is horrible some on the far left have used this tragedy to further their political platform & grievances.

January 11, 2011
Click to view callmeIggy's profile

America and the love of violence and guns has gone crazy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki17673d_Qk

January 11, 2011
Click to view jdub45's profile

Wow, there sure are a lot of misinformed people around here. Did anyone happen to check the shooters left leaning politics before they started blaming the tea party or any of the right leaning radio, or are you just going by what the mainstream media would like you to believe?

January 11, 2011
Click to view TheEgyptian's profile

ArmdDadof4

 

Thank you for the comment.  I would like to ask that all of us here read the Second Amendment carefully:

 

"A WELL REGULATED MILITA, (((((being necessary to the security of a free State,)))) the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Jared Loughner, who is is unfortunately an instable young man (surely there are many others), is neither part of a MILITIA nor is he in the military to PROTECT or SECURE  our State.

 

Before signing off, I would like to express my sorrow for his victims and their families and to all the victims of such endless, senseless violence.

 

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view ArmdDadof4's profile

jackgotney said :"To drive a Corvette you have to pass a driver's test, and have a license, and all vehicles have to be licensed and registered. Same should be for guns. "

 

  People let registrations on vehicles run out or take a vehicle registered to a family member if they do not have one.  Technically, to drive a Corvette you do not need a license.  Just a key.  The license is required by law.  Criminals do not follow laws.  This is why many people get caught driving on suspended.  A car also does not have to be licensed or registered for soem one to physically drive it.  People steal cars all the time, if they can not get one legally. 

 

It is the same with guns. People would just get others who could pass the test to buy for them or go the easier route and just steal the gun.  As a matter a fact, do you know how many guns a year or stolen from police officers?  It is staggering.  Guns will always be available to criminals.  All you would be doing is keeping people from protecting themselves from the people that stole a gun and are trying to hurt them

January 11, 2011
Click to view Rustyowl's profile

Abraham Lincoln saved this country after the civil war.  After the fighting was done, Abe didnt crush the south. He didnt point fingers, blame them and give them the costs to rebuild the country. Instead he reunited the country and offered the other side favorable terms. 

 

If our politicians cant work together

If the media cant focus on facts instead of "entertainment news"

 

We will have the Civil War 2 any time now.

January 11, 2011
Click to view thenordicone's profile

@ArmedDadof4: Sorry I need to correct your statement a bit.  Switzerland has been a neutral, independent nation considerably longer than the US, in fact, well before North and South America were known to exist by western Europeans.  It remained neutral and unoccupied even during the Nazi rampages of Europe (though one could argue of its stance during the pre-WWII years, nonetheless, they remained a legally autonomous country).  I would not assume as to whether or not any citizens, living of course during the Nazi occupations, would wish they had a gun or not; were I you and had the opportunity, I would ask one and let them help you decide for yourself.

 

However, I do believe that strict gun control should be implemented, but smartly implemented and not just across the board.  While true that criminals can and will get guns outside the legal procedures, were access cut off to these guns criminals would not be able to so easily - if at all - obtain them.  As for the mentally ill, we do not know if there were any records by either the school or with the family that indicated the shooter had some form of untreated mental illness and thus would hopefully had been disqualified from being able to own a gun.

January 11, 2011
Click to view dokomonai's profile

@ArmdDadof4

 

Ahm... Switzerland has not been successfully invaded since 1798.. I would hardly call that being walked on by everyone.

January 11, 2011
Click to view aorist's profile

"Don't retreat, reload"..

 

You can see thousands of videos on YouTube of Palin saying this to the Tea Party.  Hmm, I guess that means YouTube is "liberal."  Wonder what happened to her cross hairs target list.   

January 11, 2011
Click to view SkipIt55's profile

This was obviously a tragic moment in our history.  God watch over the families of this tragic event.  Another tragedy was the immediate finger pointing and blame game.  Comments that would normally earn a child a slap in the mouth were spewed all over the networks and media.  Sarah Palin’s “it’s time to take a stand map” received immediate attention, but the Democrat’s 2004 "behind enemy lines targeting strategy map" received no mention.  The media didn’t even consider this guy a nut case at first and some still believe he is part of some larger right-wing conspiracy.  Yet, Major Hasan who murdered 13 of my fellow soldiers and wounded 32 others was considered a psycho (immediately) and never what he really is...a gutless American terrorist...just like Loughner. This incident is not only a verdict or blemish on our government, our politics and our leaders...but all of us as a nation that somewhere along the line lost its moral compass.

January 11, 2011
Click to view JM35's profile

aorist

 

She probably hid it next to the one the Daily Kos so quickly took off their site...you know the one that showed Gabby Giffords targeted for voting against Nancy Pelosi last week! Yeah I'm sure you conveniently missed that one as it doesn't fit your ideology...Go ahead and look it up, while you're at it look up the meaning of hypocrit!

January 11, 2011
Click to view SPPP's profile

Described by friends as a liberal pot smoker...

 

liberal pot smoker...

 

A conservative Democrat was shot...

 

LIBERAL POT SMOKER...

 

A conservative federal judge was killed...

 

L-I-B-E-R-A-L...

 

Yeah, Palin was the one who drove him to it. Idiots...

January 11, 2011
Click to view retphxfire's profile

Mr. Hernandez ran TOWARDS the shooting to do good, Christina was interested in the political process and wanted to meet a 'real' politician, Rep. Giffords was being accessible to ALL her constituents when they were attacked by someone who saw violence as a reasonable action...what part of their, and the others, stories demand we ignore some of the underlying causes? Hate rhetoric DOES affect some people, all it does is reinforce their hate and anger.  While many choose to deny the truth, it is the (well compensated, media 'stars') score of right-wing talking heads and media commentators who use hostile, fractious, false and misleading rhetoric for the SOLE purpose of inciting people.  While the right can point a finger at Oberman (who has, to my knowledge, never used violent rhetoric), the left can fill a page with parisan and irresponsible people - Beck, Palin, Limbaugh (who insults the CHILDREN of opposition leaders!)et al - who love their own voices and the dissention they cause...its good ratings.  Many of these immature 'leaders' would leap to the other side if they felt they would make more money and receive more attention.  There is a reason there aren't more liberal radio and television 'screamers', its called reasonable discourse...we have come to like the ugly and negative.  (How is we can blame the perpetuation of violence and abuse in a family on learned behavior and repeated negative behavior, but deny that the same kind of behavior and actions don't further antagonize listeners who are unstable, angry and resentful?).  EACH side needs to recognize their behavior has 'added fuel to the fire' and be responsible for changing their behavior.  Again, we should work hard and honestly to use this slap in the face wake-up to modify and improve how we conduct ourselves.

January 11, 2011
Click to view fronko123's profile

This is what the tea party puts in these whack jobs minds that are walking all over our country with guns and all kinds of weapons.i just cant get over what this congresswomen father said, THE TEA PARTY HATED MY DAUGHTER.

January 11, 2011
Click to view JumpAB84's profile

What happened out in Tucson Arizona, it is so sad for the victims and the parents of the one that did this. They need to take is ass and tie him to the back of a truck and drive about 4 mph and let the people of TA line up, and beat, throw rocks, what ever it takes to vent their frustration. And that would be a example for the next dumb ass that would be thinking of trying something like that.

January 11, 2011
Click to view jzn08d's profile

I am amazed that I have not seen anything but a handful of comments on this blog about changing gun control.  Your wonderful Second Amendment that gives you the right to bear arms was written about 250 years ago in a time when there was a need for protection - from England, from Spain, from Mexico, from militia groups.  We are now in the 21st century and it's time to repeal it.  Any average person in the US (after various legalities) can legally carry a concealed handgun.  The chap that has been accused of this tragedy was an average person - you couldn't tell that he had a mental illness if you walked past him.  Something just made him snap.  You will never stop all events like this but restricting the carrying of handguns to members of law enforcement will reduce them.

 

How many more innocent people have to die before you see the light of day?

January 11, 2011
Click to view SPPP's profile

Right wing talkers hate kids? What about Kathy Griffin, CNN's favorite little liberal toy, targeting Palin's 16 year-old daughter?

 

Gonna answer this one myself: "Oh, well, since Palin is Palin, she DESERVES that!" Right, libs?

January 11, 2011
Click to view DrJohn1's profile

People, this is the tragic act of a mentally disturbed person who was registered independent, read extremist books like Mein Kampf and the Communist manifesto and is a 911 truther and hates the government & people with authority, his views are mixed and extreme and don't fit a political pattern.  He fixated on this congresswomen & had personal contact with her in 2007. This is clearly an obsessed, paranoid anti-social behavior in a likely psychotic person. This has nothing to do with the tea party and shouldn't be used as a platform to spew your political grievances.

Wisen up and keep the focus on the people that were victims...and how to better identify people with true mental illness that can have violent tendencies.

January 11, 2011
Click to view STT's profile
STT

Can anybody point to anywhere that JL said he listened to Rush, Hannity, or followed Palin's on-line antics? Anyone? No? Can anyone even prove that he listened to a single soundbite from a single right-wing radio talk show? Anyone? No?

 

Hmmmm, odd. All this talk about poitical rhetoric and vitriol on the modern political sphere may be more a reflection on the population at large and have absolutely nothing to do with this young man.

 

Correlation is NOT causation.

January 11, 2011
Click to view JM35's profile

retphxfire

 

I love how you point out each side needs to watch their rhetoric like you are some unifying voice, but before that went off on the right like this is all their fault. Oh yeah the left makes a little noise, but mainly it's the fault of the right because they make more. The problem is you have selective hearing to fit your ideology!

 

Do you remember how, like this past weekends tragedy, the left jumped to conclusions without any facts whatsoever when the man flew the plane in the IRS building in Texas...must be a crazy right winger/tea partier, Nope turns out he was one of your tolerent liberals. And don't forget the crazy that shot up the school board meeting in Florida...you boys were liking your chops to paint him as a right wing nut, again it turns out he was one of yours. Oh and the time square bomber...yeah you all couldn't wait to slam this crazy tea partier, but again it turns out he was one of your people!!

 

So please you crazy liberals for the sake of America, please stop killing innocent people! We understand you are mad and have to prove a point like a whining child, but seriously people are dying because of your actions!

January 11, 2011
Click to view ArmdDadof4's profile

The Egyptian-

 

You were correct when you said ""A WELL REGULATED MILITA, (((((being necessary to the security of a free State,)))) the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

 

  That militia was made up of farmers and hunters, many of whom used their own personal weapons.  They would not have been much help if they showed up with pitch forks and sticks.  You focused to hard on MILITIA as being the key term instead of THE PEOPLE as it was intended.  The Supreme Court has validated all of this through their rulings in D.C. v Heller and McDonald v Chicago.

 

  Any law made in this country cannot take away a right given in the Constitutional.  If it does, it is considered unconstituional.  Face it Antis,  as much as you hate it guns will be here for a while.  Sometimes they will be used for evil, but they can also be used to fight that evil.

January 11, 2011
Click to view veryannoyed's profile

Another sickening schitzo off the rails. I really don't care whether he had a difficult childbirth, whether he fell on his head when he was a child, whether he was abused or molested as I child, whether he fried his brain with drugs. I don't care how mentally ill he is or was at the time of the shootings.

 

The murders are a terrible shame. But it is also a terrible shame that he was not killed at the same time. Shame on Arizona!!!!!!!!!!!!

January 11, 2011
Click to view Billdawg's profile

This is a mental health situation. Everyone needs to tone down their rhetoric, but the rhetoric from the left and the right is not in play here, except for a sheriff who needs to be a sheriff and not a politician. There was a time when Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan could disagree on almost everything political and yet get together for a beer. This is a centrist country and the screaming on the left and the right is reprehensible. The sheriff talked about personal responsibility when he was growing up and he was right. We have become a nation of entitlement. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view redrose1234's profile

This isn't about Liberal or Conservative. It's about toxic politics. You can't ignore the fact that both sides use violent words in order to get votes.  Yes it is about a sicko, but truth is, the internet, political radio, media and politicians added to the environment. To deny it is to deny the fact that people are affected by what others say to them. The mentally ill are even more subject to this.

 

So lets stop blaming each other and stop using words to separate thinking people.

January 11, 2011
Click to view acadia11's profile

Let's stop pretending the hate and rhetoric is not at all even on both sides, the liberals have people like "Code Pink" come on people who dress up in pink and try and love you to death, and the right has nut jobs like this one.  And don't forget the census guy who was tied up and executed last year, or the protestor and Rand Paul's rally this past november, who had heard nearly stomped in ala American History X.  Are there democrats who lie , sure, about having affairs, the right simply makes up things about the way taxes, health care, budgets, immigration actually work in this country and then incite people based on hysterical fears which often border on racism.  At some point someone needs to just call them out on their complete and utter non-sense and stop pretending that an opinion is valid because you hold it.  It's like peopel who belong to the flat earth society, at some point, you need to tell look .... up! 

January 11, 2011
Click to view ArmdDadof4's profile

JZno8D-

 

You said "You will never stop all events like this but restricting the carrying of handguns to members of law enforcement will reduce them."

 

If we take away all the guns, why would police need them?  Couldn't they just have a whistle and a stick just like in China or Japan?

 

We live in a dangerous world where criminals that have guns do NOT CARE if they are NOT allowed to have them in certain places.  They only KNOW that MOST people do not have guns and are easy prey.

 

The Wild West in America had less population over all but the population had more guns per person than now.  And they had less violence.  The people killing people were CRIMINALs.  The equation more guns= more violence does not add up.  Otherwise AMERICA never would have survived the 1800's.   You could buy a Thimpson Submachine gun out of a Sears Roebuck catalouge after WW2 for Christ's sake.  Taking away guns is not the answer. 

 

People being more aware of mental problems and keeping criminals behind bars for full sentences (and unable to get hands on guns) is closer to a solution.  It is common sense.  You do not want the criminal terrorizing society, don't let him out.  Build more Prisons, that will create more jobs as well

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view JM35's profile

acadia11

 

Or the gut attending a tea party rally peacefully had the tip of his finger bit off by a crazy liberal protester, or the other guy at the tea party rally that was beat to a pulp by members of the SEIU union....Go ahead and look it up you can see their cool purple shirts they wear while kicking the guy on the ground....see it's easy to point out instances of something that fit your ideology isn't it!

January 11, 2011
Click to view THOMASCROWN1's profile

 

Is “SARAH PALIN” the new CHARLES MANSON? - MANSON told his “FOLLOWERS" pawns & minions to "kill the pigs" and off they went - MANSON was never at the scene of either the Sharon Tate, or Labianca murders - Just like PALIN - MANSON only “SUGGESTED” the crimes and he is still in prison 50 years later - "SARAH PALIN" tweeted “DON‘T RETREAT RELOAD" and issued a poster with gun-sight TARGETS & CROSSHAIRS over the names & addresses of elected government  Representatives, of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and PALIN called it a “TARGET LIST” - Like CHARLES MANSON - “SARAH PALIN” didn't personally pull the trigger  instead “SARAH “PALIN  REPEATEDLY,  DIRECTLY and with MALICE OF FORETHOUGHT “SUGGESTED” to her  mindless “FOLLOWERS“ minions & pawns who call themselves a “TEA PARTY” that they do her dirty work -  These “TEA PARTY” sympathizers, assassins,  killers and SARAH PALIN “FOLLOWERS” did EXACTLY what their “LEADER-SARAH PALIN” suggested, directed, ordered and told them to do - JUST LIKE CHARLES MANSON’S “FOLLOWERS” these TEA PARTY assassins were only following “SUGGESTIONS“ “IDEAS“ & “ORDERS” from their “LEADER/SARAH PALIN” - THESE are the UNDENIABLE FACTS: “SARAH PALIN” should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for CONSPIRACY, INSIGHTING A RIOT and FELONY MASS MURDER and put in prison just like MANSON - SARAH PALIN SHOULD NOT BE ABOVE THE LAW - SARAH PALIN is a DOMESTIC TERRORIST and should be treated as such…!!!

January 11, 2011
Click to view THOMASCROWN1's profile

 

Is “SARAH PALIN” the new CHARLES MANSON? - MANSON told his “FOLLOWERS" pawns & minions to "kill the pigs" and off they went - MANSON was never at the scene of either the Sharon Tate, or Labianca murders - Just like PALIN - MANSON only “SUGGESTED” the crimes and he is still in prison 50 years later - "SARAH PALIN" tweeted “DON‘T RETREAT RELOAD" and issued a poster with gun-sight TARGETS & CROSSHAIRS over the names & addresses of elected government  Representatives, of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and PALIN called it a “TARGET LIST” - Like CHARLES MANSON - “SARAH PALIN” didn't personally pull the trigger  instead “SARAH “PALIN  REPEATEDLY,  DIRECTLY and with MALICE OF FORETHOUGHT “SUGGESTED” to her  mindless “FOLLOWERS“ minions & pawns who call themselves a “TEA PARTY” that they do her dirty work -  These “TEA PARTY” sympathizers, assassins,  killers and SARAH PALIN “FOLLOWERS” did EXACTLY what their “LEADER-SARAH PALIN” suggested, directed, ordered and told them to do - JUST LIKE CHARLES MANSON’S “FOLLOWERS” these TEA PARTY assassins were only following “SUGGESTIONS“ “IDEAS“ & “ORDERS” from their “LEADER/SARAH PALIN” - THESE are the UNDENIABLE FACTS: “SARAH PALIN” should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for CONSPIRACY, INSIGHTING A RIOT and FELONY MASS MURDER and put in prison just like MANSON - SARAH PALIN SHOULD NOT BE ABOVE THE LAW - SARAH PALIN is a DOMESTIC TERRORIST and should be treated as such…!!!

January 11, 2011
Click to view amustang's profile

Guns are used to kill people.  There are so many now here in the states that trying to take them away from law biding citizens would be a joke.  I agree that then only the outlaws would have guns.

 

I still have a gun I acquired when protecting myself and my children from an abusive x who put me in hospital and vowed he'd kill us all.  I have never forgotten the first (AND last) beating, or how our running and hiding from him, in addition to arming myself probably saved our lives.  The police could do nothing until after the fact, and I wasn't going to let us die waiting for them.  He eventually found out where we were, but stayed away because he knew I was armed.

 

That being said I hope I never have to use it and frankly even back then I didn't think I needed a semi-automatic for protection. 

 

Many are saying why didn't this young man get help and I think that the answer there is our famous, fabulous health care system that many are so proud of and want to defend.  There is little help out there unless you can personally afford it.  The problem with mental illness is much like that of someone who drinks too much.  "I'm not crazy, the rest of the world is crazy."  "Aww, I'm not an alcoholic, I can drive home just fine."  And both statements are believed by those saying them though one may be actually quite disturbed and the other rip roaring drunk.  It is the nature of the beast.

 

I do believe that political debate has been denegrated to the point of being non-existent.  There is no political debate.  There are sneers, name calling, and digging in to defend idiologies.  There are false representations of 'facts' and little actual discourse.  Its a social illness and all of us that have used phrases like "Obamy" and "Right wing wing-nut" are causing this illness to fester.  We all should wake up and watch more carefully what we allow in our minds and out of our mouths.

 

The fact that a beautiful nine year old girl was killed while trying to participate in political process disturbes me more than anything else about this story.  I think that anyone worth their salt knows that name calling, mud slinging and really really bad choices of words and phrases is not constructive.  So let's stop LISTENING to the mongers.  Don't get sucked in. 

 

I read here that someone said that someone said that one of Palin's facebook 'pals' made a comment about no loss, the little girl would have only grown up to drink kool aid or something.   This is what I'm talking about.  Where was the proof?  I do not support Palin, I don't like her much, but...it's someone said someone said something.  I see everyday on a local web site people trying to incite anger and derision.  I see very very little else there.  Either side just slings mud and makes little progress in anything but dividing the country more.  Both sides say that they speak for me, but they do not. 

 

No one speaks for me but me.  And I am a citizen.  So please hate mongers, quit insisting that you are speaking for me.  Your anger has indirectly contributed to killing a child by fueling a the fires in an unbalanced mind.  If you listen to the mongers and if you quote them, then...are you not part of the problem? 

 

Are you not intelligent and educated and BRAVE enough to come forward and present your beliefs in a rational manner without name calling and derision?

 

Or do you want things to continue as they are now, so that next week maybe it will be a little boy who is shot, maybe your own son?

 

My heart goes out to the parents of Christina-Taylor and all her family, friends and classmates.  Bless the Angels that will surround them and protect them while a hate group rants on the fringes at her funeral.

 

Look closely at that hate group...if you do not like what you see then take care about what you say and what you do.

 

If we all start talking and quit shouting, maybe some one will be able to hear well enough to come up with some real answers we CAN all live with.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Sweep1511's profile

We can try to take steps to stop someone with mental health problems from legally obtaining firearms, but there will be those who haven't displayed symptoms or haven't acted out before prior to committing some kind of tragedy such as this. 

 

I'm not saying there weren't signs in this case, or that this couldn't have been prevented, but I don't really look forward to the day that the thought police are trolling the internet having people committed because of their political opinions absent actual threats or violent acts...

 

And although this was a high profile horrible event, it was a relatively isolated incident carried out by a deranged individual.  I don't think it is cause to go stripping all law abiding citizens of their rights, both regarding free speech and equally important the right to keep and bear arms.  We do need the aforementioned controls so that those truly proven mentally ill can't buy firearms, but I am adamantly opposed to restrictions on types of weapons such as the Glock used here based on emotion after high profile events. 

 

Some here are already ranting about the 2nd Amendment or gun rights in this country.  Well, the 2nd Amendment has been confirmed by the highest court in the land to be an individual right to keep and bear arms for defense unconnected with service in a militia.  End of story, sorry if you disagree.  Good luck repealing it.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ngoodone's profile

I subscribed to iReport just now, to thank "tepeters" for his common sense comment.  He quoted President Lincoln and I was very humbled in reading it.  All of you should take the time to read and appreciate.  This is where we are at, please let's save our country for the sake of us all.

January 11, 2011
Click to view jzn08d's profile

Dear ArmdDadof4

 

I would think that law enforcement would need to be armed because "We live in a dangerous world where criminals that have guns do NOT CARE if they are NOT allowed to have them in certain places.  They only KNOW that MOST people do not have guns and are easy prey" - your words.

 

Your statement "The equation more guns= more violence does not add up" is completely illogical.  If this person did not have a gun, there would not have been any deaths.  Plain and simple.

 

You will never stop all tragedies like this but you can work to reduce them.

January 11, 2011
Click to view nick3865's profile

Dr. Sabri Bebawi (the egyptian) had a big long post on here saying "GUNS KILL PEOPLE"  I have lots of guns at my house and not a single one of them has ever even tried to kill me or anyone else.  Maybe it's just a matter of time though, I'll bet their plotting to kill me right now.  I should get rid of them all before they kill me!

 

Doctor of what, turning inanimate objects into killing machines that think for themselves?

January 11, 2011
Click to view amustang's profile

THOMASCROWN1: it appears that you have become that which you hate.  Please calm down.  Take a break.  Talk to someone about your feelings.  I do not want to read about you, someday, too.

January 11, 2011
Click to view acadia11's profile

mutater8,

 

Really, what hate do liberals spout, I'm tired of people just making blanket claims.  Please, let me know, what hate "Code Pink" is running around spouting? What hate, don't just make a claim, what freaking hate are liberals throwing out.  Liberals are not tieing up census takers and executing them, liberals are not running around stomping protesters heads into the cement, liberals are not running around blowing up abortion clinics, liberals aren't going around beating the .... out of gays, so please, specify the hate liberals are "professing" aside from the pinkies running around fluffy and vibrant through the RN Convention, and really if you fear a guy wearing pink, then I think you doth protest too much.  So, let's cut the B....S.... about hate remotely being in the same realm between the two parties.

January 11, 2011
Click to view goo6er's profile

In terms of what inspired this loon to open fire, let's wait and see what the FBI can get from his computer.  If it turns out he spent hours viewing the websites of Sarah Palin, Glen Beck, Michelle Bachman and others, will you still say the attack was not politically motivated?

January 11, 2011
Click to view bert2010's profile

As Rivera interviewed Joe Zamudio, one of the men responsible for subduing the crazed loon responsible for the shooting, he “said to Geraldo, “I don’t know if you were aware but I carry a weapon.”

 

Wow. That’s kind of a conversation changer.

 

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view LucidCitizen's profile

The shooter listed the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf (Hitler's autobiography -- also socialist) among his favorite books. His high school friends have described him as "a committed leftist", and say his parents were hippies that allowed drug use promoted a counterculture mentality. And yet the media has portrayed this right-wing provoked. Does that make sense to you? 

January 11, 2011
Click to view bert2010's profile

amustang - after reading all the crap on this blog, reading your blog was like a seeing a ray of sunlight through a dark cloud.  Thank you for having some common sense.

January 11, 2011
Click to view music2hisear's profile

What is interesting (and saddening) is that in many of these posts who call for an end to hateful words and commentary follow those words with hateful and vitriolic words of their own. What use is that? None.

 

As for gun laws, cities such as Detroit, Chicago, and DC have the strictest gun laws, yet have some of the highest gun crime rates. The only thing strict gun laws do is ensure that only the criminals have them. Yes, there are crimes where guns were purchased legally, but those are not as common.

 

And finally, this shooting is heartbreaking, but the reactions by the American public is even more heartbreaking. I've seen people call for the lynching of Sarah Palin, everyone at Fox News, everyone in the tea party, and the republican party. In my opinion, that is more hateful and inciting than anything else. A 9 year old child was murdered on Saturday, yet all anyone wants to do is go on a witch hunt.

 

My heart and prayers go out to those affected by the heinous crime. A very sick man committed this act.

January 11, 2011
Click to view amustang's profile

LucidCitizen: well if he did list those books (Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto) as his favorites then certainly the boy was confused and should NOT have dropped out of school.  Did you see the BBC documentaries on the Military Channel last night?  Hitler wasn't really a socialist and he and Stalin (who was a reported communist but like Hitler just a really bad guy) seemed to have had some disagreements...

 

Back in my day hippies were all for peace, it was the militants that called for violent revolution, not the hippies...I know I was there....so I guess the definition of hippies has changed.

 

In essence I DON'T CARE if the shooter is right wing or left wing.  There are already examples enough out there to underline that supporting extreme ideologies while dumbing down debate to mud slinging and finger pointing and fear mongering is part of the problem we see now in this country, and why we will have a very hard time finding our way to a better life for all of us, rich, and poor and in the middle.

 

Does anyone besides me see the irony of both right and left trying to blame the other side for being the most hateful in the most hateful of terms?

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view acadia11's profile

JM35

 

And this is my point, about how the right simply makes up ..it, number 1) the guy you said doing the punching in fact was the one with the dislocated shoulder, 2) the guy happens to be an SEIU member of which more than 2 million people are it's like saying well I have an AA membership 3) the two "black men" got into an altercation because one asked why would you be handing out buttons denigrating Obama, yeah, have your views but what's up with the black face and blatently racist Obama buttons by a black person no less, and then the tow got into a fight over it, that's entirely different from walking in and shooting up the place of people you have had little conversation or comment or even reason to be offended by.  And this is what I mean about the right and lies, they take events, ideas, and place them in a ridiculous context to paint the picture they want.  Tell the whole story about Gladney, don't just make it seem, like some SEIU members plotted some attack on some random dude.  The bottom line is the right is simply violent in away that lends to it's history.  Remember during the 50's essentially former democratic racist poor white males switched from the democtratic party to republican party as protest to a democratic president LBJ ending segregation. 

 

Remember the south was #1 a gun culture, and #2 racist and they had no problem using violence to keep the status qou and essentially you have the same idealogy existing today fear and fight.  That simple.

 

When a liberal nut job walks in and starts blowing away people in 2011 because he feels that he hates old people because they left his children in debt, then yeah, we can say liberals and republicans handle things same.  They simply don't , and I'm ending this non-sense of an idea that they do.  Compare it like this, America has had it's evils, but it ain't Nazi Germany.

January 11, 2011
Click to view bert2010's profile

Joe Zamudio was a key person in stopping Jared Loughner and keeping him pinned to the ground - and Joe Zamudio was carrying a concealed handgun (which he chose not to use because they already had Jared down).  So is CNN saying they don't think Joe Zamudio is a hero because he had a gun?  What does CNN think about active military people, or vets like me? 

January 11, 2011
Click to view Jim970's profile

Not a surprise that the comments slip into a "more gun control" mantra.  Not convinced there is a good correlation.  Take a look at Mexico. Strong gun control laws and severe gun violence.  Yes, I know that the reply will be that the guns are coming from the US, but that is really irrelevant.  The "bad guys" would get guns somewhere regardless of the rules in the US.  Anti gun laws may make it a bit more difficult for criminals to get guns but they WILL get them.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

@kingsolomon3  I beleive you have an incorrect line of logic.  The very existence of guns is NOT the problem.  There are several countries that have a higher percentage of households with guns present.  Note that this is not the "per capita" statistic that is immensely distorted by gun collectors.  In those other countries, deaths as a result of gun violence are much lower than in the U.S.  We should try harder to understand why this difference exists.  It's like saying that nuclear weapons are bad due to their very existence.  To the contrary, we've seen them stop a world war, and they've kept another world war from starting ever since their inception.  The key is that they were used properly...as a deterrent and last resort to stop violence.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view mjtallant's profile

Jan Brewer and the Arizona State Legislature have the guts to do what's right.  They took on illegal immigration because the Feds lacked the guts to do it themselves. Today the Arizona State Legislature passed a bill to keep "Weirdo Baptist Church" from protesting the funerals of the dead.  Bravo Arizona!  I think I'll move there and spend my hard earned money there.  I like the guts Arizona displays.  Something America used to personify.  Rush Limbaugh - you're like cancer on the testicles of America. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view BajaJohn's profile

Ex-Longhorn2:  Over 30, 000 people die annually in the U.S from gunshot wounds. Some of those wounds are self-inflicted. Over 500,000 shootings occur annualy and the cost to treat the injured is astronomical, running into the billions.  Yet, Bloomberg reports the sale of Glocks in Arizona is like a stampede after this shooting. My thinking is that Arizona should be flushed down the toilet.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

@Jim970 who says "Take a look at Mexico. Strong gun control laws and severe gun violence.  Yes, I know that the reply will be that the guns are coming from the US, but that is really irrelevant." 

 

No, that's completely relevant.  That's why passing state and city gun laws is pointless in the U.S.  Either it's a Federal ban, or no ban at all.  Interstate travel is largely unrestricted in the U.S.  Combine that with the legal private sale of guns, and it becomes very easy for criminals to skirt around local laws.  Then we hit the issue that only criminals would have guns and law-abiding citizens would be at a disadvantage.  THAT is why I have a concealed handgun license and carry regularly.  But if there were a Federal ban on, say, handguns...I might almost be willing to support that if the data showed a resulting strong decrease in handgun crimes.  Gotta try it to see if it would work.  Otherwise, the Supreme Court should continue striking down any state and local attempts at gun control.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

@BajaJohn, I don't disagree that guns can cause deaths and injuries.  Lots of things do.  I always go back to the drunk driving case.  Should we ban alcohol because some idiots are not going to use it responsibly?  Even if drunk driving kills over 10,000 people each year, and maims many thousand more?  Even if one in three people will be involved in an alcohol-related crash in their lifetime?  We tried FEDERAL prohibition, and that didn't go so well. We haven't even started talking about drugs yet.  So it's safe to say that banning guns, like banning alcohol, probably won't be effective and may possibly lead to more violence.  But letting every nut case and radical have a gun isn't very smart either.  What's the middle ground here?  I propose that it's reinsitution of the 5-day waiting period with a complete criminal background check.  That would stop MANY of these crimes while not infringing on the rights of law-abiding citizens.  Something to consider.

January 11, 2011
Click to view bamafaninnc's profile

BajaJohn, I have thought California should be "flushed" out of the Union for years.  Hope it swirls around before AZ.

 

 

 

 

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view ExLonghorn's profile

Oh, and let me add that we should strongly increase the penalties for gun related crimes including mandatory sentencing.  Rob a store with a knife and get one year.  Rob it with a gun and get 5 years.  Injure someone with a gun and get 20.  Might make criminals think twice about their choices.

January 11, 2011
Click to view jeanster's profile

Mentally ill people + guns = violence and tragedy.  Before Ronald Reagan was president, mentally ill people received treatment in mental hospitals.  During the Reagan administration, funding for treatment of the mentally ill was slashed. Thus, the mentally ill are walking the streets, and in states where guns can be easily obtained, they can obtain them.  We need more funding and better treatment for the mentally ill.

January 11, 2011
Click to view bigtrike's profile

The second amendment does not make any exceptions for criminals or limit the types of arms that we're allowed to bare.  If you want to interpret the constitution to the letter, it suggests that currently imprisoned criminals must be allowed access to nuclear weapons.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view updbum's profile

The USA is the only democratic country in the world with incomprehensible gun laws and access. Why does any human being need a gun for any reason? In England, even the cops don't carry guns. Wake up USA!

January 11, 2011
Click to view tsnnative's profile

I would like to begin by sending my deepest condolences to the families that have lost loved ones in this senseless act and offer my prayers for those that have been injured

I have noticed that the fact that there is a five day "cooling off" period before a gun can be purchased in Arizona has not been brought up once. The state has been portrayed as a bunch of idiots with guns hanging off their hips. I don't think the gun laws are at issue but an issue of hatred caused by by SB1070. A venomous bill that opened the door for racism and every nut case thinking they can change America by being a vigilante. 

January 11, 2011
Click to view citrix5's profile

The REPUBLIKLANS know that the direction of this country is fading from red to blue which will put them in the backseat politically.  That's why they use their cowardly tactics to bully and scare the weak.  It has backfired!!

January 11, 2011
Click to view Naught7's profile

az is not any red state, it is a 'nut-magnet' too. I recently walked into a Waffle House for breakfast, he walked in with a six-shooter strapped to his hip like in True Grit. I went to TGIF to watch the game, he walked in and asked the host to take down the "No Firearms Allowed" sign because it violated his 2nd Amendment rights to carry a gun.  I went to a sportsbar to see the playoff game, a kid about the same age as he was walked in with a Glock strapped to his hip.  Same thing occurred on another occasion at a Circle K.

 

Like I said, it a nut-magnet notwithstanding the many fine people who live in Arizona.  I'll take the nuts in California any day!

January 11, 2011
Click to view TXHighlander's profile

I have to say it is really interesting... People asking that all the vitirol to stop, then bashing their poliical opponents.  Talking about stoping the violent talk then calling someone an fat lying slob who should be punished for what he said.

I don't agree with a lot of what both sides have said here but I won't resort to name calling, bullying and belittling.  Your opinion is your opinion, you are free to express it but you don't have to be mean, rude or obnoxious about it.

 

In regards to the many questions/concerns about guns here are a couple interesting notes.  According to gun-control-network.org (the name speaks for itself) there were 3.98 gun deaths (murders) per 100k in 2001 (the last year they have stats for).  For a population of 300 million that comes to just short of 12K deaths.  That same year there were over 17K deaths due to drunken drivers (from the alcoholalert.com website).  42% higher than gun deaths.  Based on that it seems simple that if we need to ban guns we absolutely have to ban alcohol.

 

I have a CHL (concealed hand gun license).  The FBI, and my state have my finger prints, and know just about everything about me including my shoe size.  The reason I feel the need to from time to time carry a gun is my family has been the victim of violent crime.  You see my 14 year old son was home alone one summer day.  Our house was invaded by 2 repeat criminals.  Luckily they didn't harm him but they made him participate in the crime (carry stuff to their stolen car).  They threatened his life if he called the cops.  My son testified in court and help send them to jail (although terrified). Now these criminals are currently in jail but should be out shortly.  They know where I live.  Are you seriously telling me I don't have the right to protect my wife and son???

 

Your are entitled to your opinion, but think about it. 

 

This lunatic did the unthinkable.  He had a legal gun but I think he would have gotten a gun illegaly if he had to.  What he did is absolutely tragic.  It should never happen but there are lunatics and bad people out there.  WE should be more concerned for all those who lost family.  WE should be more concerned about those who are injured and fighting for their lives.  WE should be more concerned about how each of us can make sure our children don't turn out like this mad man.  It's too easy to blame the opposition, it's your fault so I'm better than you.

January 11, 2011
Click to view Ellumkala's profile

Federal govt failed to protect Arizona citizens from criminals invading from south of the border. So every citizen should have the right to bear arms for own safety.

At the same time guns should be kept out of the hands of the mentally challenged.

January 11, 2011
Click to view APOCALYPSE7's profile

My sincerest prayers and condolences to all victims and their families. Earlier today on TV I saw the movie "Bowling For Columbine" by Michael Moore. 2 young men from that school went with Mr. Moore to Wal Mart HQ to confront the CEO. The next day a spokesperson for WM made a statement to the awaiting press ( and Mr. Moore's film crew) that within 90 days, Wal Mart would remove all ammo (I think it was guns and ammo but ammo for sure) from all it's stores nation wide. WTH happened ????? How did the ammo get beack in there? Would that not be liable for conspiracy and / or false advertising or something?? Some kind of way Wal Mart should have be held accountable even at least for the lie.

 

January 11, 2011
Click to view lorilyn's profile

Why hasn't anyone in the media picked up on the fact that the shooter was obsessed with gold/silver/currency and Rush Limbaugh's biggest advertiser is a gold/silver company? He was being brainwashed in more ways than one.

 

I also don't understand why people don't understand that these conservative talk show hosts CONSIDER themselves ENTERTAINERS and not journalists or broadcasters. Ask them. They make outrageous comments because it FILLS THEIR POCKETS. They exist because the Fairness Doctrine was abolished. Their biggest fear would be to bring it back because they could no longer incite hatred among Republicans. ASK THEM what their biggest fear is. DIG into this story. THAT is the truth.

January 11, 2011
Click to view ArmdDadof4's profile

jzn08d stated that

 

"Your statement "The equation more guns= more violence does not add up" is completely illogical.  If this person did not have a gun, there would not have been any deaths.  Plain and simple."  

 

I apologize.  I did not realize guns were the ONLY way to kill people.  If he did not have a gun he could have stabbed her.  Or if he wanted to inflict multiple damage he could have run a CAR into the crowd and killed people.  So,no sir, I am afraid you are illogical.  The person not having a gun does not mean there would have been no deaths. 

January 12, 2011
Click to view Robwbab's profile

i have been watching this tragedy for the past 4 days. finally the parents of this inddividual J.L.L have a chance to help explain to the nation what has occurred and what they may have done to prevent this . we get nothing from them. i know i would be afraid also , but i'm sure they would have had better protection than little innocent Christina Greene, or any of the others families that have been shattered  this week. its time they come out so they can respect the family's  need to understand not for closure purposes but just to understand what he was doing and why, and what he had hoped to achieve by doing this.  having everyone speculate on his insanity or sanity doesnt solve what we need to know to nderstand this murderer.  i'm upset  and praying for all the injured and fallen he caused

 

January 12, 2011
Click to view augrazvan's profile

I am very sorry to say that, but we are leaving in a sick world. And every day is worse. We need to change our values. We need to change the actual society, our organisation. I invite you to find ideas and solutions.

January 12, 2011
Click to view notFauxNews's profile

So, an anti-government, anti-federalist kook excercises his second amendment rights against a Democratic official, "targeted" by the right wing. But let's work hard together as to not jump to conlusions. You know, this may be stiffling our right to hate speech. "TEA PARTY – WATERING THE TREE OF LIBERTY WITH BLOOD OF INNOCENTS SINCE 2009".

 

 

January 12, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

back at the egyptian, I spend most of my time reading books considering by the time I was seven I had the intellectual ability of a 12 year old so my friend you are wrong and I have visited many a civilized country. And to Liz I am a genius I have personally designed guns and weapons of that sort and the original purpose of a the gun was to hunt, then it was introduced to war, read a history book. And once again to the Egyptian if you must know I have even written a book on how to truly create a perfect society so, checkmate you loose. I could have graduated high school years ago.

January 12, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

oh yeah Liz what idiot would use a Glock to hunt.

January 12, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

@ Exlonghorn, I have never made the presumption that the ones with legal guns are the ones committing the homicides. I was alluding to the fact that fewer people can legally carry them to protect themselves and so therefore the criminals have a hayday

January 12, 2011
Click to view ditzmiester1's profile

To find a solution to the Whole argument is the fact that most people( criminals in mind ) do not think of the fact that once you pull the trigger you can never that that bullet back its gone and you have destroyed a life.

January 12, 2011
Click to view NewfoundWord's profile

The darkest day bore a

gentle light, a newborn sound among

human plight, a beacon standing

Proud and small, learning to stand as

We were learning to fall,

A reminder to men that shadows breed

sun,

That from the union of all comes the

heartbeat one.

A pinpoint of Green among a

thick veil of black.

We remember the Gift that tragedy

begot--

But among all this joy, we sadly

forgot

That the Lights of this world are few and

far-spaced

Flickering candles among this odd place.

And these Shadows dictate that a flame shall be

dimmed

To then satisfy Cruelty's whim,

And by terrible chance this bright Green was snared

And despite heartfelt pleas, this flame was not spared.

We all must remember how Light marks our eyes,

Leaving imprints when the true Candle dies,

For we all took a part of this developing Flame,

and hold out our hearts to whisper Her name.

The Truest of Lights never ends with its own death,

And so we protect it with the love on our breaths.

-Rest In Peace, Christina Green

January 13, 2011
Click to view Paramore811's profile

This is a very sad day for Arizona. This is because of the shooting that they had. And what I do not get is that why did people get hurt. For example, a girl that was born in 9/11 got shot and there was more people who got injured or who got klled. So in the ending of this we should all pray for them and hope for the best to come.

January 13, 2011
Click to view Nariece's profile

Its very sad for everyone involved and even the people who aren't involved. Yes, there was a shooting but when strangers morn for people they have never met that shows something right?

January 15, 2011
Click to view Siddique's profile

Arizona Shooting - It is another true tragedy and there is a  lesson to be learned for American generations to come - "Seek Freedom Without Becoming Un-American".

 

 

January 24, 2011
Click to view scampi1519's profile

While Obama was at the memorial in Tuscon, John was hosting a coctail party

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