This is a spin off post from the post “Black Obama has killed the Black Movement” so as not to take over her post trying to respond to some questions that Autarkh posed.

AUTARKH

November 11, 2009-11-2009, questions:

What is the "Black Movement"?

What is "Black Power"?

What is an "Average Black Man"?

What is an "Average White Man"?

What do you mean by drinking the Kool Aid?

ADEDAPO

November 18, 2009, response:

I agree DesireG, in her post went on but didn’t make a real point that can be responded to, like a moving target. But I appreciate her attempt to make whatever point she was trying to make. Maybe it just the way my mind work. I just want to take few moments to try to answer your questions. Perhaps DesireG have different answers and I can appreciate that. But as someone who has been involved in the Black Movement, maybe I can shed a little light on the matters.

What is the "Black Movement"?  This was (since slavery, but especially during the 60’s) an attempt by black people and their white and other allies, in this country to knockdown the barriers, stop injustices and gain equal opportunity in all areas of life in this society. The Black Movement, per se is a thing of the past (50’s, 60’s and 70’s), more than it is a movement of today. But to some degree it still continues, but it is not as focused as it was in the past. During the 60’s the question was “Are you Black?”, but since, the question is “What kind of Black are You” given that blacks are now involved in many area of this society. Partly I believe what DesireG is saying is that the election of Obama, while his election is one result of the Black Movement, his election also give some blacks and whites, the idea that blacks have totally “overcome”, when we haven’t, therefore the movement become even less focus with less drive.

What is "Black Power"? First, Black Power is not the opposite of in kind as the “White Power” that the KKK and such groups speak of. Black power is not an attempt to deny anything to whites (other than prevent racist ones from oppressing us). Black Power speaks more to political and economic power, especially within our communities. There was a time when “Redlining”, “Gerrymandering”, “Steering” and all sort of other tactics were used against blacks to deny them loans to buy home, dilute their political power (votes) by dividing parts of large black communities between several white communities. Blacks were denied economic power in always being made the last hired and first fired or laid off, and always kept at low paying, low authority jobs.

What is an "Average Black/White Man"? This is a hard question to answer because every man and woman is a product of the social sciences (social, cultural, economics, politics, religion, language, food, etc) of their respective people. But in general, I would say an average person is someone who does not stand out above the crowd because of their level of education, income, position, etc, and who generally adhere to the expectations of other average people like them, who they interact with on a daily basis. For example, professionals (athletes, movie stars, doctors, lawyers, etc), because of their income, education or position, etc) are not just average people, but in terms of some of their behaviors, maybe some act like an average person.

What do you mean by drinking the Kool Aid? Another way of saying don’t fall for the hype, or don't be taken in by propaganda, etc., perhaps playing on the fact that hundred of followers of Jim Jones, drank poison Kool-Aid in Jonestown Guyana, about a decade ago and die.

AUTARKH

November 19, 2009-11-2009, follow up questions:

Thank you. I have more questions, sorry.

In reply to your response that the Black Movement is "an attempt by black people and their white and other allies, in this country to knockdown the barriers, stop injustices and gain equal opportunity in all areas of life in this society."

1. Would you consider the Black Movement to be necessary forever? If not, how would you measure success at a level that it would not be necessary any longer?

2. Is it possible to ever be a "post-racial" America. If Yes, how would you know you have reached that point?

3. Is it possible that we segregate ourselves into these groups based on race and other cultural factors and somehow prevent ever becoming post-racial by doing so?

4. Can we ever reach a point where we all simply consider ourselves Americans. Personally, I look around at my co-workers and friends for example, they are of all races, and I just see Americans. When I read about Black Movements and Black Power, I feel segregated based on race. How could I personally become a part of repairing this?

ADEDAPO

November 19, 2009, response

No need to apologize to me, but like you I apologize to DesireG if it appear we are trying to take over her post. That is not my intent, so to answer your follow up questions, because I tend to have long answers, I have started a new post

I’ll say in regards to my first answers and the ones to follow, I do not try to speak for all African-Americans.

Having said that, In regards to your first (1) follow up question, I cannot predict the future condition of blacks in America. In general I would say conditions are much better, in many ways, than they were in the 60’s, when there was a well focused Black Movement in the streets, fighting against well perceived problems. While the Black Movement today is not as obvious to many, there is still a need for a Black Movement to some degree, not necessarily or just against racial discrimination, but against all the remaining external and internal (to the Black community) problems the Black community face, that no one else is going to solve for us. To measure success, one would have to do statistical analysis in all the areas (jobs, education, health care, lower poverty rate, etc) and compare this to the “average American”. But as long as there are significant (artificial) disparities between blacks and whites, then I say success has not been reached, and some kind of action (not necessarily a movement) is needed to correct the problems. Now don’t get me wrong, many blacks are doing very well now and some whites are not doing so well in terms of economics, health care, education, etc. So at this point, if this society continue to move in the direct I see it moving, the focus need to be less on just the problems of blacks, but on people in need in general.

2. If I asked this question, I would ask, “Is it possible to ever be a “post-ethnic” America? I say this because I see conflict in this country between more than just black and white. The conflict is not only inter-racial to various degrees (between black and white, black and Hispanic, white and Asian, etc) but also the conflict is intra-racial (conflict between groups in the same race). Some blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc get alone better with people outside their race. There is conflict between Asian groups, and Hispanic and Arabic/Muslim groups. Given all the different conflicts and the number of people in this country, I do not think we will ever have a post racial or ethnic America as long as there is ignorance, scarce resources, or people who just hate other our of fear, etc. The ultimate post racial America, I think would be an America without distinct racial groups. In other words, we become a nation of only mixed race people, but even then there will be problems. The problems that exist between black and white, exist between white and white, and between black and black. The only problem is that when problem are inter-racial, they get more attention.

3. This is a very interesting question. On the surface it would appear it’s impossible to become post-racial, if significant number of people identify with a particular ethnic or racial group. However, I believe that it is a false dilemma, that is, If you identify with a certain ethnic or racial group, then you cannot have a common identity with others, and respect and appreciate the differences between you and your group, and someone else and their group. That is the kind of small thinking of people who would tell me that I cannot be an African-American and be an American at the same time. So I believe its all in education, understanding, appreciating and celebrating our differences, and having an open mind.

4. I believe I answered this in #3, but I’ll comment further. I don’t think there is a need for us to reach a point where we all simply consider ourselves Americans. America is a country of immigrants from the many racial and ethnic groups from around the world. I think you will miss the point of what it means to be American if you simply try to reduce it to the name “American”. In the following, I quote a passage from one of my other posts (African-American, Is this Racist or Seperatist?) . This applies not only to African-Americans but to every groups in America:

Now if you don’t understand how that (using terms such as Black, Hispanic, Chinese, Korean, Italian, Irish, etc) can be done, without making everyone a racist or separatist, then listen to the words of Booker T. Washington and W.E.B Dubois, two great African-Americans many years ago. Booker T. said, “In all things that are purely social we can be as separate as the five fingers, yet one as the hand in all things essential to mutual progress.” Then W.E.B. Dubois said, speaking of African-Americans, “We are Americans, not only by birth and by citizenship, but by our political ideas, our language, our religion. Further than that, our Americanism does not go. At that point, we are Negroes, members of a vast historic race that from the very dawn of creation has slept, but half awakening in the dark forests of its Africa father land.”

Now there are far too many purely social things to mention, but if I may, I’ll list a few of the things essential for mutual progress. These are the thing that real Americans are made. First, let’s start with believing, upholding, and defending the constitution. As a person who know a little about other political and power systems through history and in the world today, I believe the U.S. Constitution with it’s amendments and the Bill of Rights, even if written by some men who happened to have been white, is the best documents ever written to grant the amount human freedom and liberty that we enjoy here.

As I say this, I’m mindful of the suffering and sacrifices made by Native Americans, so that American could be, and I’m also mindful of the fact that the documents written to give freedom and liberty, although very good, were not initially written to include African-Americans or any other people of color, and even white women were not initially grant full freedom and rights. But as the constitution, it’s amendments and the Bill of Rights stand today, these are the main attractions of this country. Second, we should participate in the political process (vote). Third, we should respect, appreciate and celebrate the rights and cultural of other Americans. Fourth, we should obey the law. Firth, we should be clean, educate our children and work to support them. If you tell me I can’t go to an Italian, Chinese, Ethiopian, or other ethnic restaurant because that would make me a racist, then I’m going to tell you that you are un-American.