I did not have an abortion, but I experienced fetal demise in my second trimester twice, and the second time, I was referred out to an abortion clinic.. The first time, I was 15 weeks along (16 years ago), and was induced to deliver my baby boy who had died. The second time I experienced this, I was 18 weeks along (12 years ago) and was attending a different doctor's practice. After an ultrasound revealed no heartbeat, I asked if I could be induced right away as I had experienced before, but the doctor said he would not recommend that, that he would prefer to send me to a specialist for a D and C. I did not know the different terminologies at the time, but found out later, what he was sending me for was a D and E, late term abortion procedure because I was too far along for a D and C. I was very reluctant and protested, but he really pushed and said it would be so much easier on me and on my body. He said there were 2 specialists in the state and he would call to find out their availability. He came back and said he had one of the specialists dialed up in his back office, Dr. Warren Hern's office - - I spoke to a nurse and was told right off they require $2000 payment up front unless my insurance would fax over confirmation they would cover the procedure, and I was thinking it was a bit odd, but trusted my doctor and just thought I would take care of the money portion later, that certainly my insurance would reimburse me for seeing a specialist for fetal demise. I was also told that they usually instruct patients to say within the city limits of Boulder because of hemorrhage risk, which also concerned me, but I still trusted my doctor because of his insistence; the nurse said I lived close enough since I was only about 10 miles away. I was to go in the next morning to have medication placed at my cervix to start the process, then again in the afternoon, then finally, the rest of the procedure would occur the next day after that. I arrived the next morning to the location I had been given, then walked up to the front of the building and saw 'Boulder Abortion Clinic"...I could not believe my eyes and thought I was not at the right place, so I went closer to the door, and sure enough, it was the name I had been given, Dr. Warren Hern. I now know what I did not then, that he is one of the few abortion providers in the country who perform late-term abortions. I was absolutely devastated and left crying hysterically. I was thankful I had been through it before at that point and knew I could be induced and deliver my baby in a hospital. I called the practice I used to attend and told them I experienced fetal demise again, so they brought me in for an ultrasound, then sent me to the hospital to deliver. I learned from the nurses there what a D and E was. I was induced and delivered my baby girl the next morning, it was a healing experience to have a whole baby to hold, measure, take her footprints and have her cremated. I filed a grievance, but the doctor had done nothing against Colorado's Medical Practice Act, but I was assured that he would never be referring patients out to an abortion clinic again for fetal demise. I pursued legislation with my state rep. to make a change so that women could not be sent to a specialist without knowing what type of provider that specialist was, but met blockades at every turn. I contacted the news and women's organizations, but it seemed nobody wanted to touch a story that may shed any negative light on abortion. I still grieve for women who do not know they can deliver a baby that has died while carrying her or him; I fear this is another dirty secret of the money hungry abortion industry, that some are being referred out to abortion clinics and have to endure going to a place where other women are aborting their living babies, and that they are going through a very dangerous procedure rarely discussed in detail. Months after the incident, I learned from the CEO at the hospital where this doctor works, that they had a meeting and he reiterated they want to help women in such a predicament, that no matter whether they opt to deliver or have a D and E, they want to be the ones to take care of them. That's when I learned they have the equipment to perform a D and E; most hospitals do not. That is when my belief that this doctor was getting money 'under the table' was solidified, as he was sending me out to an abortion clinic for a procedure he or another doctor could have performed at his hospital, if it was truly about the type of procedure that he felt would be so much easier on me and my body. So many years later, I now know what a dangerous procedure a D and E is, what the risks are and how the abortion providers have to yank with all their might using tools to dismember the baby's body limb by limb to extract it, and I couldn't imagine enduring that after already suffering my baby's death while I was carrying her. He seemed to be such a great doctor up to that point, even involving my two little girls in listening to the heartbeat at another appointment and drawing a happy face with the ultrasound gel for my 6 year old the very day we were going to have measurements done and hopefully peek at the gender, but received the awful news instead. That day, however, he became so uncomfortable after my ultrasound result and couldn't even really look me in the eye. He has an outstanding reputation and has received awards, but I know a very different side of this man, and I am positive he is not the only doctor to engage in this type of referral practice. Again, I just believe it to be another dirty secret of the industry...